Remember in November

[callmeslick]

and the Social/Religious conservatives have taken it to extremes.

please clarify because I am one of those social/ religious conservatives.

gladly. Here in PA, and elsewhere, substantial campaigns were made attacking education in the sciences.
Specifically, the target was teaching of evolution and Origin of Species, but it evolved into an attack on the entire scientific method. What has resulted, nationwide, is a sort of dilution of teaching in the sciences. And, IMHO, that is not a good thing.

The other part of your post is outstanding. I'm sure I wouldn't agree with some of your emphasis on religion,
but you demonstrate the spirit of sacrifice and family/society before self that has been lost in this country.

[callmeslick]

Two "goofballs"??? Do you mean the two, who are members of the New Black Panther Party? The Party that is associated with the NAACP and also closely associated with Obama. The two who were fomenting the murder of all white folks "crackers" at a open public voting establishment....Those two are just "goofing off"? What do you call the ACORN voter fraud folks? "Unfortunates"? The "unfortunates" also associated with Obama.

Old Pudfark sez: " another shining example of Slick's forte "

and, an excellent example of why we're fucked. I think Cuda, as an intelligent conservative, would likely agree......you focus on stupidity.

[CUDA]

and the Social/Religious conservatives have taken it to extremes.

please clarify because I am one of those social/ religious conservatives.

gladly. Here in PA, and elsewhere, substantial campaigns were made attacking education in the sciences.
Specifically, the target was teaching of evolution and Origin of Species, but it evolved into an attack on the entire scientific method. What has resulted, nationwide, is a sort of dilution of teaching in the sciences. And, IMHO, that is not a good thing.

The other part of your post is outstanding. I'm sure I wouldn't agree with some of your emphasis on religion,
but you demonstrate the spirit of sacrifice and family/society before self that has been lost in this country.

it appears you may be failing to look at the other side of this issue slick. the attack on Christianity in general. I'll give you an example. the church a couple of my older kids attend was renting a local school for services. 2 times a week wed night and sun morning for 12 years. they maintained the school in excellent condition and had bought the school new equipment as a result. BUT because 1 new member of the 9 member school board was anti religion, he forced the school board to kick the church out of the school. which in turn has cost the church currently 3 million dollars to make improvements to roads at the new location they must now rent. I'll agree there is a war going on between religion and non religion, specifically in the area of Science/religion which is quite sad really, Christians tend to "try" and be gracious and not fight. (ignore the whacko's) but while it takes many Christians fighting for an issue to get results, it only takes 1 non-christian to fight against something Christian to get a result. 1 person screams "seperation of church and state" which by the way does not exist and people start peeing their pants trying to appease them. personally BOTH science and religion should be taught HONESTLY in school. the truth will speak for itself. its when one group tries to make a mockery of the other that I have a problem. and I find that more times than not its the anti religion side that does it. recently congress hired a pastor to say a prayer at an event. he was told he could not mention the name of Jesus to close WHY?? Or Prohibit the Free exercise there-of

FYI I am not a liberal Christian. in fact I am quite conservative. (conservative Baptist) but I understand the teaching of Christ and realise that I cannot and will not force my beliefs upon anyone, but please do not rob me of the opportunity to freely practice it.

[Daiichidoku]

I understand the teaching of Christ and realise that I cannot and will not force my beliefs upon anyone, but please do not rob me of the opportunity to freely practice it.

if only this axiom was applied by more ppl over more subjects, regardless of which "side" they may be on

[CUDA]

Christ is a Gentlemen and never forced what he taught on anyone. even to the point where he was humble unto his own death. if Christ did not try to force himself on anyone. who am I to be arrogant enough to try.

[Pudfark]

Two "goofballs"??? Do you mean the two, who are members of the New Black Panther Party? The Party that is associated with the NAACP and also closely associated with Obama. The two who were fomenting the murder of all white folks "crackers" at a open public voting establishment....Those two are just "goofing off"? What do you call the ACORN voter fraud folks? "Unfortunates"? The "unfortunates" also associated with Obama.

Old Pudfark sez: " another shining example of Slick's forte "

and, an excellent example of why we're fucked. I think Cuda, as an intelligent conservative, would likely agree......you focus on stupidity.

Put those same "goofballs" in front of a church, post office, school or grocery store and focus on your stupidity CallmeSlick/Shabazz.........I don't think you know anything about intelligent conservatives, let alone, enough to surmise that CUDA would agree with you....

Old Pudfark sez: " Just because the devil throws a little icing on the cow pie.......it don't make it cake. "

[callmeslick]

it appears you may be failing to look at the other side of this issue slick. the attack on Christianity in general.

hardly. I do agree that in some quarters, it is fashionable to attack Christians. That is stupid, to say the least, but shouldn't in any way relate to education, at least on the level I'm talking about.
There is utterly no reason that Science can't be kept separate from religion, but when folks insist on teaching their children that the Earth is 8000 years old, that defies all rational data(not a close call, either, several orders of magnitude). Evolution is a scientific fact, Origin of Species is but a theory, but too many in the religious right cannot separate the two, and that is very basic science education defining theory versus fact.
The whole group of (primarily) Conservative Christians who had control over such matters during the Bush years did their best to undermine Cell Biology research, Biomedical Research, environmental research(thank goodness, a large chunk of Evangelicals seem to be changing their views on this part) and other very basic sciences, for 8 years. By attacking higher learning, you serve to de-motivate learning down the chain, I think.

As for religion being taught in school, I hold an opposite view to you. I feel that religion is the sole province of the family, and as such should neither be taught in the Education system(until higher levels, in Philosophy, Comparative Religion, Divinity schools), nor should disparagement of it in school be tolerated.

I agree completely about certain ways the status quo deals with Church and State. The Founders seem to have been pretty specific, that the State cannot mandate nor discourage any reasonable practice. The thing about the Pastor, with no mention of God is ludicrous. What's the purpose for the Pastor to speak?

[callmeslick]

Old Pudfark sez: " Just because the devil throws a little icing on the cow pie.......it don't make it cake. "

kid, the adults are having a conversation. Go play outside for a while or watch TV.

[CUDA]

There is utterly no reason that Science can't be kept separate from religion, but when folks insist on teaching their children that the Earth is 8000 years old, that defies all rational data(not a close call, either, several orders of magnitude). Evolution is a scientific fact, Origin of Species is but a theory, but too many in the religious right cannot separate the two, and that is very basic science education defining theory versus fact.

I agree with you for the most part, there is no reason why they cannot keep the two effectivley seperate. however too many science teachers portray too much Science as fact when alot of what they teach is just theory. that in it self is poor education.

The whole group of (primarily) Conservative Christians who had control over such matters during the Bush years did their best to undermine Cell Biology research, Biomedical Research, environmental research(thank goodness, a large chunk of Evangelicals seem to be changing their views on this part) and other very basic sciences, for 8 years. By attacking higher learning, you serve to de-motivate learning down the chain, I think.

the same type of issue apply to the left. you cannot legislate a country without taking into account the belief system of a majority of the population and with 76% of the populace calling themselves Christian you need need to at least listen to them. Also many Christians are looked upon as poorly educated and that is a BAD conclusion

As for religion being taught in school, I hold an opposite view to you. I feel that religion is the sole province of the family, and as such should neither be taught in the Education system(until higher levels, in Philosophy, Comparative Religion, Divinity schools), nor should disparagement of it in school be tolerated.

here I disagree with you completely. Religion regardless of the faith should be taught in school. now the belief in that religion is a different subject. if the Bible is anything beyond God's written word it is a VERY accurate history book

I agree completely about certain ways the status quo deals with Church and State. The Founders seem to have been pretty specific, that the State cannot mandate nor discourage any reasonable practice. The thing about the Pastor, with no mention of God is ludicrous. What's the purpose for the Pastor to speak?

unfortunatelly many people on the left do not agree with you. they take "the Government shall make no laws establishing a religion" to mean that the government cannot have any association or recognition of a religion in any way shape or form. while at the same time they intentionally Ignore the "Or Prohibit the free excercise there-of" part. unfortunatelly when they do this they focus almost soley on Christianity and do not treat Islam with the same standards, hence they discriminate against Christians.

[callmeslick]

.... you cannot legislate a country without taking into account the belief system of a majority of the population and with 76% of the populace calling themselves Christian you need need to at least listen to them. Also many Christians are looked upon as poorly educated and that is a BAD conclusion

I think you overstate the level of prejudice. And, as for legislation, ideally it reflects the will and intent of the people(or at least those who vote). As such, if Christians, en masse, disapprove of legislation, to the tune of 76% of the electorate, I'm guessing it isn't going to get done. Examples might clarify for me.....

As for religion being taught in school, I hold an opposite view to you. I feel that religion is the sole province of the family, and as such should neither be taught in the Education system(until higher levels, in Philosophy, Comparative Religion, Divinity schools), nor should disparagement of it in school be tolerated.

here I disagree with you completely. Religion regardless of the faith should be taught in school. now the belief in that religion is a different subject. if the Bible is anything beyond God's written word it is a VERY accurate history book

we have to agree to disagree on this one......I see utterly NO place for religion within a public k-12 school setting. We have precious little time with the pupils to learn Math, Language, Science and core Social Studies to stretch what, as I stated, should be a very personal matter. I often avoid analyzing the intent of the Founding Fathers, but I'm pretty sure this is where the key authors stood, pretty firmly.

unfortunatelly many people on the left do not agree with you. they take "the Government shall make no laws establishing a religion" to mean that the government cannot have any association or recognition of a religion in any way shape or form. while at the same time they intentionally Ignore the "Or Prohibit the free excercise there-of" part. unfortunatelly when they do this they focus almost soley on Christianity and do not treat Islam with the same standards, hence they discriminate against Christians.

can't disagree much with this or the first part of your post. My only point to you would be to consider that MOST folks, except a very small number with extreme views, are pretty open and tolerant. At least, that's my experience. So, you might not fear discrimination as much as you seem to.
Anyhow, in the midst of the usual dense fog of stupidity, it was nice to exchange thoughts on the matter. And, that is as it ought to be. You state real ideas, I try and do likewise, we agree on some, don't on others.
That, by tiny example, is how our whole damn system was designed to work. It hinged, as Jefferson wrote, on a well-educated populace. It hinged on a populace willing to respectfully debate, agree, disagree and ultimately, make nuanced, compromise solutions to the problems of the day. We've lost that populace to a narcotic haze of sound-bite thinking, big money for 'information' campaigns, regression in the social and self-centered, short term thinking. Turning that around starts with education, and I fear for what I see......