Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

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nuf
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:43 am

Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by nuf »

Those guys must have misread the memo. And people in the thread suggest that it´s a fairly common thing. I wonder what makes people become such cowards and dicks. Those idiots don´t even get how many deaths on all sides they caused and enemies they created. And they created them rightly. A bullet would be too good for them.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... id=3400732

NSFW
Here are some more pics

http://i.imgur.com/QH33x.jpg

This is the body of 15-year-old Gul Muddin, who was murdered by members of the "kill team." Previously published photos show Cpl. Jeremy Morlock and Pfc. Andrew Holmes holding up the body like a trophy.
Cpl. Morlock, who pleaded guilty last week and will testify against other "kill team" members, posing with an Afghan child. "At one point," the Rolling Stone caption reads, "soldiers in 3rd Platoon talked about throwing candy out of a Stryker vehicle as they drove through a village and shooting the children who came running to pick up the sweets."
He was a smooth-faced kid, about 15 years old. Not much younger than they were: Morlock was 21, Holmes was 19. His name, they would later learn, was Gul Mudin, a common name in Afghanistan. He was wearing a little cap and a Western-style green jacket. He held nothing in his hand that could be interpreted as a weapon, not even a shovel. The expression on his face was welcoming. "He was not a threat," Morlock later confessed.

Morlock and Holmes called to him in Pashto as he walked toward them, ordering him to stop. The boy did as he was told. He stood still.

The soldiers knelt down behind a mud-brick wall. Then Morlock tossed a grenade toward Mudin, using the wall as cover. As the grenade exploded, he and Holmes opened fire, shooting the boy repeatedly at close range with an M4 carbine and a machine gun.
Back at the wall, soldiers arriving on the scene found the body and the bloodstains on the ground. Morlock and Holmes were crouched by the wall, looking excited. When a staff sergeant asked them what had happened, Morlock said the boy had been about to attack them with a grenade. "We had to shoot the guy," he said.
It was an unlikely story: a lone Taliban fighter, armed with only a grenade, attempting to ambush a platoon in broad daylight, let alone in an area that offered no cover or concealment. Even the top officer on the scene, Capt. Patrick Mitchell, thought there was something strange about Morlock's story. "I just thought it was weird that someone would come up and throw a grenade at us," Mitchell later told investigators.

Instead, he ordered Staff Sgt. Kris Sprague to "make sure" the boy was dead. Sprague raised his rifle and fired twice.
To identify the body, the soldiers fetched the village elder who had been speaking to the officers that morning. But by tragic coincidence, the elder turned out to be the father of the slain boy. His moment of grief-stricken recognition, when he saw his son lying in a pool of blood, was later recounted in the flat prose of an official Army report. "The father was very upset," the report noted.

The father's grief did nothing to interrupt the pumped-up mood that had broken out among the soldiers. Following the routine Army procedure required after every battlefield death, they cut off the dead boy's clothes and stripped him naked to check for identifying tattoos. Next they scanned his iris and fingerprints, using a portable biometric scanner.

Then, in a break with protocol, the soldiers began taking photographs of themselves celebrating their kill. Holding a cigarette rakishly in one hand, Holmes posed for the camera with Mudin's bloody and half-naked corpse, grabbing the boy's head by the hair as if it were a trophy deer. Morlock made sure to get a similar memento.
"It was like another day at the office for him," one soldier recalls. Gibbs started "messing around with the kid," moving his arms and mouth and "acting like the kid was talking." Then, using a pair of razor-sharp medic's shears, he reportedly sliced off the dead boy's pinky finger and gave it to Holmes, as a trophy for killing his first Afghan.

According to his fellow soldiers, Holmes took to carrying the finger with him in a zip-lock bag. "He wanted to keep the finger forever and wanted to dry it out," one of his friends would later report. "He was proud of his finger."
Emboldened, the platoon went on a shooting spree over the next four months that claimed the lives of at least three more innocent civilians. When the killings finally became public last summer, the Army moved aggressively to frame the incidents as the work of a "rogue unit" operating completely on its own, without the knowledge of its superiors.
"Most people within the unit disliked the Afghan people, whether it was the Afghan National Police, the Afghan National Army or locals," one soldier explained to investigators. "Everyone would say they're savages." One photo shows a hand missing a finger. Another depicts a severed head being maneuvered with a stick, and still more show bloody body parts, blown-apart legs, mutilated torsos. Several show dead Afghans, lying on the ground or on Stryker vehicles, with no weapons in view.

The Pentagon being as nice as ever.

the Pentagon went to extraordinary measures to suppress the photos – an effort that reached the highest levels of both governments. Gen. Stanley McChrystal and President Hamid Karzai were reportedly briefed on the photos as early as May, and the military launched a massive effort to find every file and pull the pictures out of circulation before they could touch off a scandal on the scale of Abu Ghraib.]By suppressing the photos, however, the Army may also have been trying to keep secret evidence that the killings of civilians went beyond a few men in 3rd Platoon. In one image, two dead Afghans have been tied together, their hands bound, and placed alongside a road. A sign – handwritten on cardboard from a discarded box of rations – hangs around their necks. It reads "Taliban are Dead."

One poster in the thread writes:
I have ex-friends who went to Iraq and came back with stories and photos of stuff like this, bragging about how hilarious it was to shred a woman with a machinegun and poo poo. It's not an isolated incident. US soldiers use civilians like sport.

Edit: I might even still have some of the photos they took of people with blown off faces, posing next to them. There was one of my ex-friend pointing a gun at a kid, too, and laughing.
Nice war, eh?



And do you guys see a trend developing here?
"After that the ROE changed, and carrying a shovel, or standing on a rooftop talking on a cell phone, or being out after curfew [meant those people] were to be killed. I can't tell you how many people died because of this. By my third tour, we were told to just shoot people, and the officers would take care of us."
While on tank patrol through the narrow streets of Abu Ghraib, just west of Baghdad, Pfc. Clifton Hicks was given an order. Abu Ghraib had become a "free-fire zone," Hicks was told, and no "friendlies" or civilians remained in the area. "Game on. All weapons free," his captain said. Upon that command, Hicks's unit opened a furious fusillade, firing wildly into cars, at people scurrying for cover, at anything that moved. Sent in to survey the damage, Hicks found the area littered with human and animal corpses, including women and children, but he saw no military gear or weapons of any kind near the bodies. In the aftermath of the massacre, Hicks was told that his unit had killed 700-800 "enemy combatants." But he knew the dead were not terrorists or insurgents; they were innocent Iraqis. "I will agree to swear to that till the day I die," he said. "I didn't see one enemy on that operation."
Last edited by nuf on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nuf
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:43 am

Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by nuf »

What does McChrystal say?
In a stark assessment of shootings of locals by US troops at checkpoints in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal said in little-noticed comments last month that during his time as commander there, "We've shot an amazing number of people and killed a number and, to my knowledge, none has proven to have been a real threat to the force."

The comments came during a virtual town hall with troops in Afghanistan after one asked McChrystal to comment on the "escalation of force" problem. The general responded that, in the nine months he had been in charge, none of the cases in which "we have engaged in an escalation of force incident and hurt someone has it turned out that the vehicle had a suicide bomb or weapons in it."
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... f_peop.php
nuf
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:43 am

Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by nuf »

Whoah, so many heroes. Look at how awesome Iraq was. Makes one want to support are troopz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojs3tnYD5m8
Pudfark

Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by Pudfark »

I don't really give a shit....

Old Pudfark sez: " Try it....you'll like it... "
oFZo
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Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by oFZo »

I keep trying to convince myself that most, or at least a lot of, people who join their country´s armed forces do so for fairly noble reasons, stuff like keeping their fellow countrymen safe and all that.
Shit like this makes me keep failing at it.

People who `don´t give a shit` are fucking idiots. Showing the civilians over there that the guys from the west actually might be the devils they always were told they are isn´t helping stabilizing the region, it´s going to be fucking expensive in all kinds of ways. (edit) Not to mention the obvious stuff about killing innocent people.
"How about no, you Crazy Dutch Bastard?"
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callmeslick
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Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by callmeslick »

Pudfark wrote:I don't really give a shit....

Old Pudfark sez: " Try it....you'll like it... "
and, therein lies the problem. If Americans 'don't give a shit' about behavior like this, we, as a nation will become an international pariah. When your whole foreign policy rests upon 'moral imperative' this sort of stuff destroys any high ground advantage. We will be seen, and partially correctly, to be no different than the Russians, the Nazis and Japanese Imperial army durring WWII or a host of other historical examples.
Not giving a shit should not be an option for ANY American. This is a government 'of the People' and thus, actions of our troops, more so than any other nation, reflect upon 'the People' of the US. Every soldier involved in those kill teams should be summarily executed, no exceptions. Won't happen, but ought to.
Pudfark wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 11:15 am I live in Texas....you live in America.
oFZo
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Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by oFZo »

America is the great Satan!!! :evil: :P

(In another thread
oFZo wrote:I ran out of La Chouffe and started on the Chimay. Cheers!

If that´s any explanation...)
"How about no, you Crazy Dutch Bastard?"
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callmeslick
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Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by callmeslick »

the explanation works for me. ;)
Pudfark wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 11:15 am I live in Texas....you live in America.
Pudfark

Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by Pudfark »

callmeslick wrote:
Pudfark wrote:I don't really give a shit....

Old Pudfark sez: " Try it....you'll like it... "
and, therein lies the problem. If Americans 'don't give a shit' about behavior like this, we, as a nation will become an international pariah. When your whole foreign policy rests upon 'moral imperative' this sort of stuff destroys any high ground advantage. We will be seen, and partially correctly, to be no different than the Russians, the Nazis and Japanese Imperial army durring WWII or a host of other historical examples.
Not giving a shit should not be an option for ANY American. This is a government 'of the People' and thus, actions of our troops, more so than any other nation, reflect upon 'the People' of the US. Every soldier involved in those kill teams should be summarily executed, no exceptions. Won't happen, but ought to.
I still don't give a shit and neither does Obama...their Boss.
Now, if you give a shit?
Their Boss is as guilty as they "may" be or are....

BULL SHIT
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callmeslick
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Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan

Post by callmeslick »

Pudfark wrote:
callmeslick wrote:
Pudfark wrote:I don't really give a shit....

Old Pudfark sez: " Try it....you'll like it... "
and, therein lies the problem. If Americans 'don't give a shit' about behavior like this, we, as a nation will become an international pariah. When your whole foreign policy rests upon 'moral imperative' this sort of stuff destroys any high ground advantage. We will be seen, and partially correctly, to be no different than the Russians, the Nazis and Japanese Imperial army durring WWII or a host of other historical examples.
Not giving a shit should not be an option for ANY American. This is a government 'of the People' and thus, actions of our troops, more so than any other nation, reflect upon 'the People' of the US. Every soldier involved in those kill teams should be summarily executed, no exceptions. Won't happen, but ought to.
I still don't give a shit and neither does Obama...their Boss.
Now, if you give a shit?
Their Boss is as guilty as they "may" be or are....

BULL SHIT

Pud, check your timeline for the incidents and who was Commander in Chief at the time. Note when they were brought to justice. Once again, as in a few previous examples, you wish to blame those righting the wrongs.
Pudfark wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 11:15 am I live in Texas....you live in America.
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