They lied to keep the funding coming? Say it ain't so!

[ruggbutt]

it's not a problem limited to the right wing of the spectrum.

You are correct. It was honed into a fine science by the DNC.

Just so ya know, I give you shit about the DNC cuz most of your responses are straight from their playbook. I have issue with all politicians. I hammered Bush about the Patriot Act on these forums. Now I hammer Obama for putting us in the worst debt this country has ever seen. Makes Bush's debt seem downright trivial. But the facts are your party is in charge right now so they're the ones responsible for all this shit. If and when the Repubes get back into power and pull the same bullshit then I'll hammer them as well

But for now, it's your party fucking the economy up worse than even when Carter was president. As for divisive, your party stopped working together with Republicans when Bush came into office. It's been a bitter fight between cunts ever since.

[callmeslick]

Just so ya know, I give you shit about the DNC cuz most of your responses are straight from their playbook.

do you have a copy of this supposed 'playbook'? You can give me all the shit you care to, but just realize you look like an idiot. Anyone with the least clue about the Democratic Party knows they don't have much real organization. Never have, never will. It is a very diverse group. I represent the centrist wing, I suppose, but it varies from issue to issue. Sometimes, I fall far to the Conservative side, sometimes not.

I have issue with all politicians.

I know. And, visa versa(see my sig quote).

But for now, it's your party fucking the economy up worse than even when Carter was president. As for divisive, your party stopped working together with Republicans when Bush came into office. It's been a bitter fight between cunts ever since.

but, the economy is recovering. Albeit, a slow process, but every economist out there agrees it is happening.
Further, most agree that the Obama team prevented a total meltdown, even worse unemployment and less
international cooperation than might have been seen otherwise. No total home run, but so far, a pretty damned good track record on economics, amongst most respected experts. As for the bitter lack of cooperation, that actually started back with Reagan, and was on the upswing since the Gingrich crowd of Repubs hit Congress in 1994. When one looks back at it, the Dems were FAR more cooperative under Bush,
allowing 95% of his appointments to proceed without issue. This GOP group has been preventing even routine non-judicial appointments from going forward, essentially crippling a new administration and doing the people a disservice. Not to fear, longterm, they seem bent on self-destruction, and the Palin wing could well render the GOP completely irrelevant. Then, we'll have a one-party system for a while. You should be thrilled.

[nicolas10]

LOL @ recovery

[ruggbutt]

and the Palin wing could well render the GOP completely irrelevant.

I never could figure out why (alleged) men have a problem with a strong, good looking chick.................Mind you, that's all she is cuz she ain't no politician. But in these times being a politician is akin to a bottom feeder.

[nicolas10]

... but every economist out there agrees it is happening.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1325471700&play=1

That's one economist who doesn't agree (ok a market analyst not an economist, but he knows what he is talking about probably better than an economist). And that was before the dubai collapse, which, strangely happened just before the thanksgiving weekend so basically went unaffecting US Stock exchange. It caused quite a rampage on the london stock exchange, which, had a 3 hours computer crash that prevented any trading Oddly enough, london stock exchange is owned at 21% by... dubai...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 934261.ece

Nic

[Yellow77]

China will be next. They hold a lot of U.S. debt and will start collecting once this hits them. They won't take worthless U.S. money, either. The economy won't recover as long as the middle class is being decimated by big business. Their thinking works like this - Profits are coming up short this quarter, let's lay off 3000 people. I guess business forgot that there are people that work for them, and not numbers on a balance sheet. You don't always have to run at record profits; breaking even is OK too.

Dubai will just raise oil prices to make up their money anyway.

[callmeslick]

LOL @ recovery

it is what it is, nic. This wasn't a pretty mess that we(the Western world) got into, and it isn't about to be an easy one to get out of. Still all the leading indicators are going well(GDP, trade numbers, etc), all we can do is hope that the trailing indicators follow as has been the case throughout history(by these, I mean
employment and lending activity).

[callmeslick]

a market analyst not an economist, but he knows what he is talking about probably better than an economist

I couldn't agree less. Market analysts are shills, who make guesses based on what happened, usually too late.

And that was before the dubai collapse, which, strangely happened just before the thanksgiving weekend so basically went unaffecting US Stock exchange. It caused quite a rampage on the london stock exchange, which, had a 3 hours computer crash that prevented any trading Oddly enough, london stock exchange is owned at 21% by... dubai...

I think you answered the question about lack of effect upon the US markets. I'll admit, I thought the US would see a 2-3% hit from that one, but clearly European investors are tied far more closely to the Dubai
construction bubble. Anyone who bought into that building craze, IMHO, is a fool. Who the fuck really thought that Dubai was going to a major commercial hub, when the target populations they were aiming for live in Europe, Asia and North America? Sure, they could draw a bit of action, but the Middle East doesn't have that much worth dealing in beyond petroleum, and that is a slowly dwindling item. It was another sucker play, a speculative bubble that will keep the Dubai royal family wealthy, part some fools with their money, and all will proceed apace.

[callmeslick]

China will be next. They hold a lot of U.S. debt and will start collecting once this hits them.

if you look closely, it didn't hit them. Sure, their growth rate dipped, from astronomical down to a more pedestrian level, but their economy never stopped growing. It probably won't anytime soon. Yes, they hold a lot of US bonds, but there is an old and worthwhile saying for this situation:"owe the bank a hundred bucks, and they own you. Owe the bank 10 million bucks and you own them". The Chinese economy is so wedded to the US, at the moment, that the two nations have little choice but to work together or both would collapse, spectacularly.

They won't take worthless U.S. money, either. The economy won't recover as long as the middle class is being decimated by big business. Their thinking works like this - Profits are coming up short this quarter, let's lay off 3000 people. I guess business forgot that there are people that work for them, and not numbers on a balance sheet. You don't always have to run at record profits; breaking even is OK too.

business, in the US economic system, forgot that a while back. I'd peg it at around 1967, but that is but a rough guess.

Dubai will just raise oil prices to make up their money anyway.

Umm, back to Economics 101, Yellow. No single producer can do a fucking thing to set oil prices. They will just hope that the warhawks take control in the US and rattle sabers in the Middle East. That works every time, like a charm. If you don't think some of the bluster out of Bush/Cheney toward Iran wasn't intended to raise oil prices(benefitting the pals of Bush and Cheney), you are naive.
At any rate, don't cry for the Maktoums. They will still have enough cash on hand to feed those 2500 racehorses they own. The only folks that will suffer are the suckers..er, investors they talked into backing those 80 Billion dollars of bonds.

[Daiichidoku]

I'd peg it at around 1967

proably closer to 1939....