dealing with illegal immigration, the right way

[callmeslick]

....as opposed to Ruggies dimwitted idea of mass deportation, fueled by man-love for his local sheriff, who has deported a handful, and watched the immigrant population rise, along with the Phoenix crime rate, we have the Obama administration dealing with the problem rationally. Here, Ruggie, is the article from today's Philly Daily News, demonstrating the administration practicing what I have been preaching for years. I hope they continue to press on:

Don't blame the workers. Blame the employers.
By JULIE SHAW
Philadelphia Daily News

shawj@phillynews.com 215-854-2592

THE U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency has been cracking down on what it sees as what's fueling illegal immigration: Employers.

It's been doing this through a stepped-up use of the I-9 audit. The I-9 is the form that employees have to fill out to verify that they are eligible to work here.

On July 1, ICE announced that it was alerting 652 businesses nationwide that they were to face an audit of their I-9 forms. In comparison, ICE issued 503 such alerts in the entire 2008 fiscal year.

An internal ICE memo, sent in April, emphasized that "criminal prosecution of employers is a priority." The memo, since made public, said that the full range of investigative techniques should be used, including the "use of confidential sources and cooperating witnesses, introduction of undercover agents, consensual and nonconsensual intercepts and Form I-9 audits."

Kate Kalmykov, an associate who specializes in business immigration and compliance in the New York office of Klasko, Rulon, Stock & Seltzer LLP, which also has a Philadelphia office, said this stepped-up focus on employers is definitely a warning signal that ICE is "taking action."

But, most of all, she said, with about 12 million undocumented immigrants in the nation, it's a signal that "some comprehensive reform is needed."

The Philadelphia offices of ICE are responsible for the states of Pennsylvania, Delaware and West Virginia. Agents in its Office of Investigations said that they are conducting I-9 audits on companies in the area, but can't name those businesses.

The office also focuses on employers suspected of a variety of crimes, such as money laundering, human smuggling and human trafficking, and in those cases won't send any kind of notice alerting employers that they are being investigated.

The office is aware of immigrant communities' use of temporary-employment agencies to find jobs for undocumented workers. It sees such agencies as a threat.

Such agencies serve immigrants not only from Indonesia, but have cropped up to serve Hispanics from Central and South America, Africans, Chinese and Vietnamese, according to ICE.

"These temporary employment agencies act as criminal organizations," Andrew McLees, deputy special agent in charge of the Office of Investigations in Philadelphia, said in an interview in ICE's office, on Chestnut Street near 2nd, last week.

"Because their illegal activities start right up front when they hire that employee, and then they're transporting that employee to the work site, and, in some cases, they're harboring the employee, . . . the proceeds that they receive in return for providing that employee is illegal."

McLees said that the agency doesn't have the resources to go after every illegal immigrant.

"Our resources don't allow us to do that," he said. "We have to use our finite resources to focus on employers who are egregiously hiring illegal aliens. . . . We're really focused on people who are breaking the law and that we can bring to justice criminally."

One thing that the agency would like to make clear is that it doesn't go out and search for illegal immigrants at random.

Mark Medvesky, the local ICE spokesman, said: "We do targeted-enforcement operations, where when our agents and our officers go out to a location they are looking for specific people or they know that there's a specific group of people there, and it's limited to the area where they expect them to be, to the people they expect to find. It's not just a sweeping kind of action, it's very direct and targeted."

[ruggbutt]

I love it when you post shit you think you know about. I love how employers now are blamed for illegal immigration and (as is usual for you) the illegals themselves (and their actions) are minimized.

First of all, the I-9 form is a joke. As an employer I'm forced to have illegals fill these out and provide several forms of ID. Mind you, if someone tried to give me a swap meet ID card and a 3x5 card with a social security number written in crayon I have to accept it. Because I'm not a government official therefore I cannot make a judgment call on whether those forms of ID are fake or not. Forget that fact that I actually have a Social Security card, or have seen a shitload of state issued ID's in my lifetime.

So now I take his obviously fake forms of ID and he fills out his W-4. Of course he chooses the max number of dependants, cuz then a minimal amount of money is with held for FICA, etc. When I say minimal it's like 20 bux on $450. That's a small price to pay for cheating the man. Anyhow, I send a copy of the form in to cover my ass.

Say 6 months later Social Security Administration gets back to me to tell me that the SS# that Jose is using is fake. And that I'm to get another number from him. That's correct, I didn't stutter. Not "we need to make an appointment to get an agent there to arrest" Jose. Not "call local authorites to hold him till we get a transfer to federal custody". They want another goddamn number.

Wash, rinse, repeat. I literally saw this a dozen times in the many times I was in the office of my brother in law's business. I asked him point blank about the I-9 form. He spelled it out for me. It gives employers a "pass" while subverting the immigration laws. I believe that out of all the employers in the country who use illegals that most of them are honest. It's like any group of people, there is always the bad seed. But when a government official states that it's the employers' fault they need to look at themselves and admit that when you give any group a loophole, some will take it and abuse it.

If you look at the opposite side, I refuse to hire illegals. Period, end of story. It's not cheaper for me, my services are more expensive but I do pretty good and the wages I'm paying stay in this country. I just put on 3 guys, all Americans (two are crackers, one is chicano). There are a whole shitload of us who will take a bit less income because we refuse to 1) break the law 2) hurt our trade. Hell, I put 12 tons of rock in my front yard after I killed the grass and laid the plastic. It was a bitch and I'm not 25 any more but I'll be goddamned if I'm going to participate (by hiring illegals to lay the rock) in something that has hurt the construction industry and it's journeymen almost as much as Clinton's deregulation of the banking industry.

....as opposed to Ruggies dimwitted idea of mass deportation, fueled by man-love for his local sheriff, who has deported a handful, and watched the immigrant population rise, along with the Phoenix crime rate,

According to your east coast douche mentality we should just ignore the crime and allow these people to fuck with our communities. It's because of people like you that we can't shoot these fuckers on sight.

LOL, and it's 652 businesses nationwide being looked at. We have that many construction based companies in Phoenix proper.........................

[callmeslick]

ruggie, it's like this(an analogy I thought of while cleaning a spill on the deck). You can either try to rid yourself of ants, one at a time, by intercepting them back and forth, or clean up the source of food. It is obvious to anyone with a brain that without employment, many aliens would just return home, and many more would never leave to come here. From the point of view of the US citizenry, it IS the employers that are guilty. Yes, the numbers seem low, but, as the article states, they are trying to do the best with limited resources, and start by focusing on large scale employment agents. I suspect that it won't take a lot of prominent convictions with substantial sentences to chill that business down considerably. At least it might work, as opposed to your method, which has failed miserably.

[ruggbutt]

It is obvious to anyone with a brain that without employment, many aliens would just return home, and many more would never leave to come here.

I agree.

From the point of view of the US citizenry, it IS the employers that are guilty.

I notice you completely ignore the fact that the government has turned a blind eye with the I-9 form that allows business owners a pass. Fact is it's the fault of the Fed. They are not enforcing this nations immigration laws. In 2002 I was returning from Los Angeles on Southwest Airlines. 14 illegals were attempting to board a plane and several of them were using fake ID's. One girl was using an ID with the name and picture of a male. Southwest gave them boarding passes. I called 411 in Phoenix on my cell phone. Called INS. Gave them my flight number and the number of people who were traveling. They said they wouldn't free up an agent for 14 people.

It's the fault of the government, period. At least our Sheriff is doing something. He sends several busloads to the border every single day. Since we can't poison the source as in your ant story, and we can't remove the reason the ants are showing up cuz the Fed won't enforce the laws then what's next? Step on every ant. I promise that no matter how many there are that you will come to the end of the line if you continue to step on them.

At least it might work, as opposed to your method, which has failed miserably.

There are murderers, rapists and serial killers in the hundreds of thousands (at a bare minimum) running free in this country. I suppose we should ask law enforcement to stop trying to catch them because there are too many.........................God you're thick.

One more thing: The right way is zero tolerance.

[Pudfark]

My two centavos...

It is complete and utter B.S. to blame the problem and the solution to illegal immigration on "Employers"....I.C.E. has a job and they don't do it....they are more interested in narcotics and contraband siezures....Zero tolerance is the only solution...as the Rugg'stir has stated....

When laws are ignored and exceptions are made, all is lost. You folks up north do not understand the problem....take a little trip down to the Texas border...este lado o el otro lado del la frontera....and take a serious look...cuz that's the toilet and y'all are the handle....so get a grip, Pull the Handle, Shits backing up here...all the way to you..... National Health Care Problem? Shit, twenty million people leeching off our health care system and resources are illegal....and you damn yankees don't have to pay the property taxes that support the health care system in Harris County, Houston Tx....thats right you sum's of beeches are making Texans pay more than thier fair/fare share....Take a gander at who is in the emergency room at Ben Taub Hospital/ Harris county...and the Tax Payers of Harris county are footing the bill...and to boot, there is only about a half million illegals living in that county.....So, Pull the Handle or Pull out the "boy butter"....cuz down here, all of us are "Slick" and Tired of it..........

Old Pudfark sez: Hit the road Jack and don't cha come back, no more....no more....

[ruggbutt]

To add to Pudfark's comments: The nightly news doesn't report the firefights that happen on the border of Arizona several times a week. The mexican military is smuggling drugs and illegals and they are firing upon the understaffed and undergunned INS agents. Slick sits up in his east coast douchebag "mansion" and has no clue what's really going on and what kind of shit storm happens to decent folk that all stems from illegal immigration. There are a lot of people to point fingers at but it all starts with Federal law enforcement.

Our sheriff is being harassed by the Feds for enforcing not only federal law but newly enacted state laws. And it's the current administration doing it. Bush's crew wasn't any better but Slick saying the Dems want to stop illegal immigration is like saying the Dems are anti-union. It's just ain't true.

[Pudfark]

I'm a gonna paint y'all a piture...or two....about thu aggravation of illegal immigration....and da cure fer it....

Use to be, way back when, we had a problem wid varmits and coyotes in Texas, the state/county put a two dollar price on each critters hide....and it didn't take long fer'em to become dang near extinct..an that there is one ugly solution to da problem...but it works...cuz, all ya gotta do is face yer deer blind south....take the corn out'n the feeders and throw in sum frijoles....no hay problema.....bet that don't sit well with them "Yankee Collaborators"

Or, give'm 60 days to leave the U.S. voluntarily....then round'em up, brand'em (wid a tattoo, cuz we ain't no heathens here) and deport'em....tell'em "you come back, you will go home again, in a box"...and then do it, without exception. Sorta like that there sign..whut sez "high voltage don't touch"....

Old Pudfark sez "Read the sign"....an "Don't mess with Texas"....

[callmeslick]

[ Fact is it's the fault of the Fed. They are not enforcing this nations immigration laws.

ok, I can agree with you on this. Certainly, a combination of not enforcing, selectively enforcing and showing no consistency from administration to administration. Fair enough point, Rugg.

At least our Sheriff is doing something. He sends several busloads to the border every single day. Since we can't poison the source as in your ant story, and we can't remove the reason the ants are showing up cuz the Fed won't enforce the laws then what's next? Step on every ant. I promise that no matter how many there are that you will come to the end of the line if you continue to step on them.

either you are not familiar with ants, or WAY more confident of your abilities.

One more thing: The right way is zero tolerance.

of what?? Of course, we can work toward zero tolerance of further immigration, but with 14 million people here, undocumented, mostly from Central America/Mexico and Asia, the cost versus benefit of rooting them out is prohibitive. The best one can hope for is a crackdown on employers and especially agencies to send the flow in the reverse direction. You're right, earlier, when you said that even doubling the effort, as Obama has done, is still too small a percentage to have a dramatic effect. But, in tight times, beefing up enforcement suddenly becomes politically difficult, especially when the GOP senate slowed you down by
failing to allow 2/3 of appointed staff to get approved to take office, and the Dems have a strong Hispanic caucus slowing funding for more field staff.

[callmeslick]

When laws are ignored and exceptions are made, all is lost. You folks up north do not understand the problem....take a little trip down to the Texas border...este lado o el otro lado del la frontera....and take a serious look...cuz that's the toilet and y'all are the handle....so get a grip, Pull the Handle, Shits backing up here...all the way to you..... National Health Care Problem? Shit, twenty million people leeching off our health care system and resources are illegal....and you damn yankees don't have to pay the property taxes that support the health care system in Harris County, Houston Tx....thats right you sum's of beeches are making Texans pay more than thier fair/fare share....Take a gander at who is in the emergency room at Ben Taub Hospital/ Harris county...and the Tax Payers of Harris county are footing the bill...and to boot, there is only about a half million illegals living in that county.....So, Pull the Handle or Pull out the "boy butter"....cuz down here, all of us are "Slick" and Tired of it..........

you are correct that having 14 million illegals, all uninsured, drags the hell out of the health care system.
One of the arguments used by those who would grant widespread amnesty is that by getting these folks fully on the tax rolls and into the insurance system, you lighten that burden. Similar issues with education funds, but no insurance will address that one. By the way, it might amaze you that we, too, have illegal immigrants up north. Our ethnic makeup varies, with Asian illegals making up 50% in PA(estimated 100,000
in greater Philly, according to newspaper article recently). Down in VA, we have a huge number of Mexicans,
about 20% or so undocumented, by my best information. They work for the chicken packers and farmers.And, yes, they cost us money. The question is how to address it, most efficiently and with the best outcome for society. Those half-million folks you have in Harris County must be doing something within your economy which is needed, for someone, or they wouldn't be there. Let's face it, they didn't come for the sunny weather and friendly locals.

[callmeslick]

I'm a gonna paint y'all a piture...or two....about thu aggravation of illegal immigration....and da cure fer it....

if you suggest literacy, I'm going to fall out of my chair, laughing. Just warning you.

<final solution, snipped>

oh, and I'm thinking no Supreme Court or Attorney General lets your plan get too far. Heck, I think that most Americans would support that approach to Republicans.