Nice job of the police there...

[nicolas10]

I hope that you are successful in finding a reputable source of information
on this movement. Whether, I agree with it or not, I would be interested in the read.

I am not interested in finding sources of information about what this movement is all about. I am absolutely not interested in that, and I don't even know what a reputable source could be to learn it anyway if I ever was interested.

What interests me is watching how the media/politics deal with those, and to what extent they will go to kill it. I'm only lookings for traces of manipulations, and if you pay attention there are MANY. If you pay close attention to such event you can watch things unfold. In the light of the events that we saw in the original video, and to the commentary of that "tea party guy" (it's not really important), you can clearly see events unfold, and who acts and who gains from it. To me there is NO doubt at all that the cop tried to pepper spray people to start shit up. A peaceful protest with a clear goal and reasonable demands can't be tolerated, so you have to paint the protesters in some very different light. That article, IMHO clearly shows how to deal with such protests from the point of view of the people in power.

As an example of manipulation, I just read an article in the french internet press about the Front National (french nationalistic party which is right wing and anti globalisation and anti europe. The "journalist" say that the ideas of the Front National are very badbut that one should respect its electors. Even better, they say the program of that party for the presidential elections is very DANGEROUS. When one guy in the comments reminds them that the program of the party is actually not even revealed as of today, the so called journalist goes on and says they have extrapolated it from interviews of the party's leader. WTF?

It's impossible to prove it, but you have to connect the dots. The tear gas incident is one of the dots.

Something quite funny. The journalist was too quick to tell the truth, and was probably asked to rewrite his article in a hurry
http://www.sott.net/image/image/s4/8278 ... ktimes.jpg

Nic

[nicolas10]

BTW pudfark, why the guy who wrote the article would be on the far left is beyond me. How can you deduce that from the article?

Nic

[callmeslick]

The Tea party has people in congress and the Occupy Wall Street folks have people on the side walk and street. One would think, Slick, that you of all people, would be the guy who would encourage everybody to work within the system. Can ya tell me who the OWS folks are running for office or endorsing?

too early to tell, remember, the Tea Party was at this very disorganized stage 3 or 4 years back. That movement really started before the Obama election, if you were paying attention.

[nicolas10]

The system is made to cheat people. You can't work from within the system.

Nic

[callmeslick]

The system is made to cheat people. You can't work from within the system.

Nic

actually, not necessarily true. You have to be smart enough to use the system to your advantage. I view the reality as not so much people being cheated by our system as people letting themselves get duped. Or, as the late P.T. Barnum once stated, "there's a sucker born every minute".

[Pudfark]

The system is made to cheat people. You can't work from within the system.

Nic

actually, not necessarily true. You have to be smart enough to use the system to your advantage. I view the reality as not so much people being cheated by our system as people letting themselves get duped. Or, as the late P.T. Barnum once stated, "there's a sucker born every minute".

I do agree with that, totally.

[Pudfark]

BTW pudfark, why the guy who wrote the article would be on the far left is beyond me. How can you deduce that from the article?

Nic

The words he chose to use and the way that they were structured, to include the "tone"...
That's probably a poor explanation from me...I know you read and write english very well...
I have realized from time to time...That, many things I say are "relational" and therefore not
clearly understood by the good folks who live elsewhere...the above is my poor attempt to be
clear....I have no doubt about my perception of that person who wrote the article...none.

[Pudfark]

Nic, about that tear gas thing....?

Cops don't go around pissing off crowds/mobs on purpose.
Why?
Because the cops are always outnumbered.
Because it will start a hell of a mess that?
They will have to clean up...with no help and lots of criticism...

Here are some things that most folks need to know...
Cops are employed by "Police Agency,Federal, Local, etc."
Cops swear an oath and work for the PEOPLE....
Cops are not allowed/permitted to let emotion influence their actions or behavior, ever.
90+% of the Cops in the U.S. and Europe are honest good people and the system seems to work well.
Only 10% (maybe) of the Cops in Mexico are honest good people...look what's going on there?

Cops are understaffed, under trained, under equipped, over worked, under paid and frequently, misunderstood.
None of these factors will ever condone misbehavior on their part...not ever and it isn't.

If nothing, I have written thus far? Sways your opinion?
Nobody but a mental case or a fool, would deliberately start a riot, that they could not control.
Clearly, from what I've seen? There were not enough cops present at that location, to provide enough of
a "Police Presence" to deter people from misbehaving...The "demonstrators" sensed this, took advantage of it,
began escalating their behavior and wonder of all wonders? The police attempted to disburse them...that did not work...so the police began to arrest them...Personally, I think the cops showed some admirable restraint in their physical handling of the persons arrested...Where the cops made an obvious mistake? They were slow and indecisive to act when the situation began to deteriorate and what they did? Seems to me, to be, uncoordinated....meaning, they lacked crowd control training. This of course, is just my opinion.

So in summation Nic...here's what I'm saying.
No cop is gonna get his ass stomped by a mob,
because some fat cat on wall street donated some
money to the police department...and the cop feels
beholding, because he got a new laptop...Now, on
the other hand?
You slip that Mexican Cop a hundred dollars?
Point out the "asshole" you want beat up and arrested?
You're gonna get your hundred dollars worth....right now.

I disagree with your "conspiracy theory" as it might apply in the U.S.
Though, I do like the discussion...

[nicolas10]

actually, not necessarily true. You have to be smart enough to use the system to your advantage. I view the reality as not so much people being cheated by our system as people letting themselves get duped. Or, as the late P.T. Barnum once stated, "there's a sucker born every minute".

This is another debate entirely. You can sure make well for yourself within the system, but you want make it change from within the system, provided you want the good of your countrymen.

Nic

[nicolas10]

Nic, about that tear gas thing....?

Cops don't go around pissing off crowds/mobs on purpose.

You saw an example on video, and you just fail to realise it.

Why?
Because the cops are always outnumbered.
Because it will start a hell of a mess that?
They will have to clean up...with no help and lots of criticism...

The guy who did that on this particular video was not one of the regular cops, and he went away quick after he's done his thing.

Here are some things that most folks need to know...
Cops are employed by "Police Agency,Federal, Local, etc."
Cops swear an oath and work for the PEOPLE....
Cops are not allowed/permitted to let emotion influence their actions or behavior, ever.
90+% of the Cops in the U.S. and Europe are honest good people and the system seems to work well.
Only 10% (maybe) of the Cops in Mexico are honest good people...look what's going on there?

I think you're a bit harsh on the mexican cops, because being a good cop overthere probably means being a dead cop. BTW I never denied that most cops take their job seriously and are probably good people. None of my points in this thread imply the contrary.

Cops are understaffed, under trained, under equipped, over worked, under paid and frequently, misunderstood.
None of these factors will ever condone misbehavior on their part...not ever and it isn't.

I don't think this has anything to do with our topic

If nothing, I have written thus far? Sways your opinion?
Nobody but a mental case or a fool, would deliberately start a riot, that they could not control.

A mental case, a fool or a criminal maybe? I think you are blowing this protest ouf of proportion. A few hundred of peaceful people are nothing that the cops overthere can't take care of.

Clearly, from what I've seen? There were not enough cops present at that location, to provide enough of
a "Police Presence" to deter people from misbehaving...The "demonstrators" sensed this, took advantage of it,
began escalating their behavior and wonder of all wonders? The police attempted to disburse them...that did not work...so the police began to arrest them...Personally, I think the cops showed some admirable restraint in their physical handling of the persons arrested...Where the cops made an obvious mistake? They were slow and indecisive to act when the situation began to deteriorate and what they did? Seems to me, to be, uncoordinated....meaning, they lacked crowd control training. This of course, is just my opinion.

This here could very well be done on purpose to make things escalate. Send too few and untrained cops to control the protest, add in a couple of corrupt dillholes to pepperspray people randomly to start shit up and you may manage to get something nasty to paint the movement in a bad light.

If it is true that they sent too few policemen, and untrained ones at that, then I think you have to wonder why they did that?

So in summation Nic...here's what I'm saying.
No cop is gonna get his ass stomped by a mob,
because some fat cat on wall street donated some
money to the police department...and the cop feels
beholding, because he got a new laptop...

You make it sound like it's impossible but the reality is not that clear cut. Of course the supervisors won't come and tell the cops they should beat the crap out of the wall street protestors because they'll get a few laptops. But a donation of a few million can sway some people at the top of the organisation. Coupled with orders from the mayor etc, how do you know wall street has no influence over the top of the police and of the city?

Now, on the other hand?
You slip that Mexican Cop a hundred dollars?
Point out the "asshole" you want beat up and arrested?
You're gonna get your hundred dollars worth....right now.

I fail to understand why you brought the mexican cops into this, I never said the US cops were all corrupt, far from it. If anything, the fact that they had to send some supervisors to do their nasty shit is a testimony to the fact that the regular cops must be decent persons who wouldn't start shit to obey orders.

[/quote]I disagree with your "conspiracy theory" as it might apply in the U.S.
Though, I do like the discussion...[/quote]

I have a position for you at the DNPD

Denial state police department :p