The "Change" we have been waiting for....

[Pudfark]

Old Pudfark sez: " Law and Order...you either have it? Or you get it.... "

you, no doubt, would have been appalled by the Boston Tea Party. Basically, this is a nation founded by radicals and formed via civil disobedience. Law and Order is well and good, and, might I add, a fine TV series, but Free Speech is an American cornerstone. To wit, we should all ponder the words of the Rep. Peter King, of New York:

""It's really important for us not to give any legitimacy to these people in the streets," King said. "I remember what happened in the 1960s when the left-wing took to the streets, and somehow the media glorified them and it ended up shaping policy. We can't allow that to happen."

can't allow the people to protest, and thus SHAPE POLICY? Isn't that the premise of our very nation? Yeesh, as Rep. King and our own Happy Horseshit have shown, free speech is only for those who agree with us, in the eyes of some. Luckily, it seems the American public rejects that. I, for example, am very much opposed to much of what the Tea Party movement has evolved to stand for, but would defend to the death their right to express those views and work to shape policy.

This is going to be fun...a lot of fun...

Your whole argument presumes/assumes that the colonists had a "right" and a process to compel a King (The Government) to listen to them and make a political change. They did not. To compare what the colonists did then to the "Sixties" and "OWS" is a flat out lie and a distortion of history and the truth. Why? Because, since the revolution a couple of hundred years ago....people have rights and a process to make change. You "radicals" are just to lazy and impatient to use it.

Now for that Law and Order thingy...You chose to associate that with a TV show? Why? Because you don't know what it is, obviously. Ya see, it's as simple as this? People make the laws and Governments enforce law and maintain order, it's their job. However, you can watch your TV and continue to compare Real Life to the scripted shows, that you watch.

Now, for what really and I mean really tickles me....
You have directly compared Obama and the Democratic Party to?
The benevolent King of England and their Parliament....and actions...
To substantiate reasons for the OWS activities and civil disobedience...
Yet, you continue to say?
Obama and Dems are our salvation....Really?
Slick, I hope yer dick is harder than your argument....

This part interested me....
You said " I, for example, am very much opposed to much of what the Tea Party movement has evolved to stand for, but would defend to the death their right to express those views and work to shape policy. "
Well, sure you would...Them Tea Party folks ain't much trouble...They don't break the law, they assemble peaceably, they don't harass and threaten folks, they don't disrupt traffic or commerce, they don't cost the taxpayers a lot of money and they go home in a reasonable period of time. It's a certainty that you like them and would place your life on the line for them...Because, it's a damn safe bet, you would have nothing to risk.

Now, a bit more about your quoted remark in the paragraph above?
It's apparent you would do the same for the OWS folks...?
This could be your last chance? To get with it.....
We both missed the sixties...
Time is running out...this could be over in a couple of days...?

Old Pudfark sez: " Ya can throw in with'em...or ya can throw down on'em...the second choice? Is like the second amendment...You made that argument in the first paragraph, Slick... "

[callmeslick]

Your whole argument presumes/assumes that the colonists had a "right" and a process to compel a King (The Government) to listen to them and make a political change. They did not. To compare what the colonists did then to the "Sixties" and "OWS" is a flat out lie and a distortion of history and the truth. Why? Because, since the revolution a couple of hundred years ago....people have rights and a process to make change. You "radicals" are just to lazy and impatient to use it.

sorry, but no. My argument presumes that out of our revolution grew the rights to assemble, and assert free political speech in public. If that, ultimately, influences policy or election results down the road, so be it.

Now for that Law and Order thingy...You chose to associate that with a TV show? Why? Because you don't know what it is, obviously. Ya see, it's as simple as this? People make the laws and Governments enforce law and maintain order, it's their job. However, you can watch your TV and continue to compare Real Life to the scripted shows, that you watch.

I know perfectly well what Law and Order is. A bit of it is fine, but history shows that a striving for 'order' leads to some terrible, draconian abuses. I'll take Freedom of Assembly over Order any day of the week.

Now, for what really and I mean really tickles me....
You have directly compared Obama and the Democratic Party to?
The benevolent King of England and their Parliament....and actions...
To substantiate reasons for the OWS activities and civil disobedience...
Yet, you continue to say?
Obama and Dems are our salvation....Really?
Slick, I hope yer dick is harder than your argument....

I compared the government(both parties, all 3 branches) to the situation in 1770. And, I can continue to do so, for, as I have pointed out forever, only a small percentage of the US population has ANY say whatsoever in the governance of the nation. Thus, for the 95% with no say, paying taxes and fees, we truly are back into a taxation without representation situation. That is where this Occupy movement dovetails with the original focus of the Tea Party/Patriot movement.

This part interested me....
You said " I, for example, am very much opposed to much of what the Tea Party movement has evolved to stand for, but would defend to the death their right to express those views and work to shape policy. "
Well, sure you would...Them Tea Party folks ain't much trouble...They don't break the law, they assemble peaceably, they don't harass and threaten folks, they don't disrupt traffic or commerce, they don't cost the taxpayers a lot of money and they go home in a reasonable period of time. It's a certainty that you like them and would place your life on the line for them...Because, it's a damn safe bet, you would have nothing to risk.

no, but the Tea Party, as currently formulated, would create a hellish third-world nation of my native land.
Far more of a threat that the drivel you fear from mass demonstrations in the Occupy movement.

Now, a bit more about your quoted remark in the paragraph above?
It's apparent you would do the same for the OWS folks...?
This could be your last chance? To get with it.....
We both missed the sixties...
Time is running out...this could be over in a couple of days...?

wanna bet?

[callmeslick]

RUN,GERALDO, RUN!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxQHys4T ... e=youtu.be

[Pudfark]

Slick we will see what happens...and it ain't gonna be much...except a waste of taxpayers money...I have heard what you said...I just am curious as to why? You are the only one saying it....The folks out on the street don't have a clue as to why they are there...you oughta explain it to them....

So, what you're saying is that peoples votes don't count?
If that's the case...why do you campaign for Obama?
Why are you not out in the street?
What you espouse and propose?
Will result in a ?
It sure as hell won't be the change you have in mind...

What is very apparent to everyone?
You folks aren't willing to fight to get what you want to take...
And you grossly underestimate those who are willing to fight to keep what they have.
It's like robbing someone with a comb in yer pocket and an ugly look on yer face...hoping, they won't call yer bluff.

I can understand the attempt to have a sidewalk straw poll...before you declare the revolution...
There ain't enough of y'all in government to do it right now...and there sure as hell won't be in about a year...

It doesn't surprise me that you have not commented on the timing of this antic...
That's a rough one to answer to....even, for you...
You might say?
It's to give it time to gain momentum?
Others would counter and say " It's a movement begun, nine months premature... "

Like I said in an earlier post...it's like a three year old throwing a tantrum.....
So I have no problem with you and a bunch of 5th+ generation welfare recipients, to include socialists
and communists...having a block party...as long as y'all don't screw up the traffic and the few businesses that
are still open....So carry on....

Old Pudfark sez: " Some folks that fight for their country can tell ya what gunpowder smells like...Others? well they say a fight smells worse than jalapenos.... "

[Pudfark]

Ya know?
After writing that little dab...above this one...
It occurred to me?
That the true "litmus test" of this here block party will be?
The first week of November....
Why? You say...
Because most of them will have to go home to get their "entitlement checks" ?
Why would that take a week?
Because it will take that long for the money to run out buying drugs and alcohol...
Then what will they do?
They will return to the "Cause"...
Why would they do that...because they will get fed and tarped until the first of the next month...
Wait a minute...that's December.
Yes it is and it's gonna get damn cold...And that there is what I meant, Slick...about the timing of the tantrum...

[Pudfark]

Tools fer Fools

Occupy Wall Street Condoms Unveiled

If you're worried about all of those protesters engaging in unprotected sex and contracting ghastly sexually transmitted diseases, you can breath a sigh of relief. Now condoms to honor (and protect) the Occupy Wall Street movement have been rolled out.

Created by Condomania, a pack of 30 condoms are sold at $11.99, which is at a 70 percent discount to "demonstrate our support for social change and virtuous pursuit of equality for all."

"We won't be screwed," these prophylactics proclaim on the packaging. "We will come first."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/1 ... 05766.html

Old Pudfark sez: " It's hard...not to take a poke...at these folk... "

[Soapy]

The benevolent King of England and their Parliament

No king of England has ever been benevolent.

I admire the protestors, we have some people doing the same in London this weekend too. It shows that people care enough to get off their arses and make a point.

Pud you seem to think ( as do quite a lot of North American people I know, good working people too ) that these marchers want your hard earned money. They don't, what they want is for the super rich and the financial wizzes who helped get us all in this mess to be held accountable for the complete feck up they have enabled.

An estimate on the UK bankers issue stated that it will cost every household in the UK £50,000 each to clear up this shit. That's 2 years wages for me, spread out over the rest of my life and my kids futures. The figures in the states may be similar.


The guys at the top who are raking in huge amounts of cash, while a the same time making it hard for the rest of us are pissing themselves laughing when people on say, $90k a year assume they are the target of the protests, complete smoke and mirrors routine. Unless your income is in the 300k p.a. bracket or above ( at the lower bracket ) you are actually one of the guys getting laughed at.

Don't confuse protest with criminality here, the criminals are the guys earning literally millions each year whilst making a complete cunt of their jobs. If you or I or the next guy messed up as much as some of these jokers did, we'd be out on our asses collecting tin cans in shopping carts.

[Pudfark]

Howdy Soapy...

That benevolent was sarcastic on my part....and intended as such..

There appear to be many parallels in our countries...while, they are not exact...they are indicative...

What troubles me?
Folks have begun to communicate in general terms about specific issues.

I'm not at all picking on you...Here is an example of what I'm saying...
"Pud you seem to think ( as do quite a lot of North American people I know, good working people too ) that these marchers want your hard earned money. They don't, what they want is for the super rich and the financial wizzes who helped get us all in this mess to be held accountable for the complete feck up they have enabled."

Here is a the problem, I have with what you said above....
Does that include Bill Gates of Microsoft?
Does that include the Walton's of Walmart?
Does that include the Ford's of Ford Motor Co.?
Did that include Steve Jobs of Apple ?

I believe that everybody wants to fix the problems...I do.
Folks must start communicating in Definitive Terms/Words and Not General Terms/Words.

What started this mess?
I very much believe...
People/Government established rules, regulations and laws in General Terms/Words.
These "General" rules, reg's and laws were exploited by those who understand "loop holes" and
Definitive Terms..(Example: Contracts)...so, Here I am and You are.

What? Not to Do?
The problems cannot be fixed/corrected with the addition of more General Terms/Words.
To do so? Will be the repeat of the mess above, executed in the same manner.

What to do? What can be done?
People/Governments must begin communicating in Definitive Language.
Example: Contracts/Legal Language where every word is defined specifically.
Once everybody knows? Exactly what we're talking about...We can fix the problems..
I have no doubt about it.

My apologies...I just read, what I have written...It could be misunderstood..as me lecturing you...That is not my intent at all...This is my gentle reminder to all that "Misunderstandings all start with Miscommunication" and "Miscommunication starts with lack of Definition and Specificity"...The more "exacting" we are with each other, will promote a better understanding. It is understood, not always an agreement. However, it least we will all know, exactly why we don't.

Our current group of politicians, yours and mine...are not going to be influenced by a few folks demonstrating out in the street....Hell, our Dem politicians say they agree with the protesters and they are sitting on their thumbs doing nothing and proposing nothing...and blaming less than 10% of our government for it (Tea Party). By the way, the "Tea Party" has only held office for 10 months.

We need to elect politicians who speak in specific/definitive words.
Not the bullshit artists and dreamers in general...who got us into the mess.

"Don't confuse protest with criminality here, the criminals are the guys earning literally millions each year whilst making a complete cunt of their jobs. If you or I or the next guy messed up as much as some of these jokers did, we'd be out on our asses collecting tin cans in shopping carts."

I "Definitively" agree.

Old Pudfark sez: " About time to get off'n the soapbox... "

Pudfark sez: " Thanks Soapy...sincerely. "

[nicolas10]

+1000 soapy

[callmeslick]

Soapy gets it. I saw an interesting graph the other evening(can't remember where or I would re-post it here).
It showed personal income, corrected for inflation, since 1990. For the top 5% of wage earners, it has risen
over 225%, for the rest of the folks, 1%. The problem, and it's one I've been harping about for years, is the vast chasm that has been developing for nearly 3 decades between the well-off and everyone else. That growing gap eventually spells doom or at the least terrible troubles for any society that develops it.

don't worry, Pud.....in time, this movement will firm up into a political effort. As with the Tea Party/Patriot movement, it will take time(that one took close to 3 years). Oh, and I finally went into Philly to talk to some of the folks for a while yesterday. You might be surprised, I encountered a very small number who are on the receipt of any entitlements. An interesting mix of urban/suburban types, students, senior citizens, all races
and some folks(like myself) who took off work for a day to show solidarity. This might have legs. Time wll tell.