here's some opinion for you, Pud.

[callmeslick]

from a post I made on another forum:

It isn't about soaking the rich to give to the poor. It's about turning around a nation who has developed, over thirty or more years, an economy aiming directly to third-world status. Think of it like a war, of sorts. And, to keep with that analogy, war is generally only successful when the society involved sacrifices, from top to bottom. We, as a nation, did so in World War II, yet failed to do so in later wars. Note the difference in outcome. At present, we are faced with a death-wish economy unless we, as a nation:
1. rebuild and modernize our infrastructure
2. re-establish education of the highest level to the prominence it once had in our society.
3. re-train mid-age workforce to modern standards
4. rebuild our committment to basic research, and establish scientific goals that will pay dividends(ex-Kennedy's moon target).
5. re-establish a system under which capitalism/finance is regulated to refocus corporations and individuals back onto long-term
gain instead of the present focus on short-term large profit.

if every one of the above is not done, we're screwed.....well, at least most of us are. Those of us with decent levels of inherited wealth, larger property holdings and diverse investments will survive, but the society in which we do so will absolutely suck.
Obama, as best as I can tell, is and has been the ONLY political player even attempting to get this message across. The fix isn't going to be fast, it isn't going to be easy, and it will require sacrifice by ALL citizens to work. The sacrifice on the part of the wealthy is a heftier contribution to the government role(and there HAS to be a government role in a modern, global society and economy) in achieving the above goals. Guess what? If my taxes go up by 20%, I still hire just as many people, and the same will be true for Gates and Buffett, as well. It worked in the 1950s and 60s, and it will work now. In fact, such a sacrifice HAS to work now or we all suffer. That is what it is about, not some sort of Robin Hood meets Dr. Dre type of gangsta redistribution. The alternative, as we've seen for SO long, is constant dithering and bickering over failed ideologies and TV news talking points full of easy answers. How's that worked so far?




now, Pud, for the informed part......my view of how capitalism and economics work was formed by my upbringing. Primarily, by learning from my Dad, who retired in 1981 from DuPont as VP of Research, and from observing the operational practices of the bank which my family owned for several generations(now, part of PNC). What I saw was long-term planning. In other words, companies that planned for income and profitablity for years to come. DuPont was famous for this. The pipeline was put in place, at great short-term cost, that yielded a constant flow of new products. And, boy, did they make money. Likewise, on a much smaller scale the bank. We were profitable from 1870 until purchased in 1975. Always profitable, too, no matter what the economic picture in the present tense was. That was, at one time, how ALL successful businesses were modelled. We have evolved, over the past 30 years into a culture/society which values immediate gratification and short term riches, and are willing to ignore and even risk our future to do so. This goes to current corporate behavior, and carries on to the individuals using home-equity and credit cards to get the things they think they deserve now. That culture will not change without a mix of regulation,sacrifice and restraint. I thinik, or at least hope, that the current downturn has woken most folks up to the personal restraint part, if only by force of harsh realities. However, corporate culture will not change without strong regulatory pressure, and rebuilding the damage done by shortsighted management of our industrial base and national infrastructure is going to cost real money which only government can or will be willing to provide. Now, chew on these thoughts, and try to come back with something more that the latest Fox News/Glenn Beck Thought of the Day.

[Pudfark]

Wow...That's a mouthful.....I been drinkin...so, it's midnight plus here...came in to shut the computer down...saw what you wrote....liked a bunch of it....disagree with some of it...will relate more later in the day....Thank You.

[fatman]

Wso, it's midnight plus here...came in to shut the computer down

Man you need to move downunder we have 24 hour electricity here

[Reservoir_Dog]

Wso, it's midnight plus here...came in to shut the computer down

Man you need to move downunder we have 24 hour electricity here

[callmeslick]

cat got your tongue, Pud? Or, is it just easier to spout FoxNews talking points than actually address the real issues?

[Reservoir_Dog]

No one can argue that economic reform is required in America on a massive scale.
But that will never happen without it going hand in hand with a change in the American political mentality.
The radical right and the radical left have taken over and it has gotten to a point were nothing constructive can happen. Without an honest bipartisan effort on both sides, America is doomed.
The radical right and left in American politics have developed a "slash and burn" mentality in which their main objective is to utterly destroy the credibility of anyone one the opposing side. Reguardless of what they are trying to achieve. The end goal no longer matters. It's all come down to "who can we damage today?"
The radical right and left will flock to the polls, but the greater masses in the middle are becoming jaded. Americans are going to stop voting. Or giving a shit for that matter.

A friend and I were talking politics the other night and he said something that really stuck with me.
"The current polarized mentality of politics in the United States could be considered to be the second American Civil War."
I couldn't argue with him.

Without a constructive change in the way radical Americans view politics...economic reform in America simply will not happen.

The American media saw to that.

[callmeslick]

well put, Res, and your friend may well be on to something, there.