Finally.......A Sensible Answer To The Problem

[callmeslick]

All of this makes me wonder how the Israelis manage to protect
their children? Who are arguably a more "popular" target for
terrorism.

Seems to me those who take a genuine interest in the welfare of our kids
and their future, would take an interest in protecting them.

but we aren't, and shouldn't be, in a war zone. By the way, this is consistent to what I've been saying about Federal weapons regulation changes. These incidents are isolated, and the goal is simply to make them even more so, even to a slight degree. This sort of plan is a VAST overreaction that is not necessary, detracts from education and might prove pretty costly to boot.

[Buzz]

Didn't you tell me you have a shotgun in your home for self protection slick? Don't you want the same protection for kids in school?


You can still do all the things you want to do. ban guns, background checks, keep better track of mental cases etc etc. The problem is what happens when one still slips through, and does a another killing in schools?

I don't see what any of this has to do with education for the kids? The teachers are still well educated, and are giving the kids the same amount of time teaching them.


Just exactly what do you want slick in your perfect world?? If you had complete control of the problem we have now. What would you do to fix it?

[Pudfark]

Well...I willing to take on the financial expense of protecting the children.
I'm not willing to forfeit the right to protect my own children.

The loss of any child is a shame and not always reasonably preventable.
The Israeli's seem to have no problem in protecting theirs.
If you truly want to protect ours? How can you reasonably disagree with me.
Their system is tried, tested and true. It works. Why would you settle for an
unproven "social experiment" that is in fact only a "placebo". Or, more to the point,
use this as an excuse for more "social engineering", which seems quite transparent.

[Pudfark]

Hey Buzz...ask me what I'd do?
I'll tell ya and it's reasonable/doable.

[callmeslick]

Didn't you tell me you have a shotgun in your home for self protection slick? Don't you want the same protection for kids in school?

I have two shotguns for duck hunting(and geese, too, which are larger, tastier and easier to hit). I don't need a weapon for home protection.....sorry, Buzz. In fact, from where I'm typing this, there are no guns in the house(Delaware). Shotguns are in VA, shells kept completely separate, both locked up until I head out to the blind.

You can still do all the things you want to do. ban guns, background checks, keep better track of mental cases etc etc. The problem is what happens when one still slips through, and does a another killing in schools?

sadly, that might happen, but the cost of that versus the cost of fucking up the entire educational system(further) is a cost I can live with. NO GUNS need be in a school setting, ever.

I don't see what any of this has to do with education for the kids? The teachers are still well educated, and are giving the kids the same amount of time teaching them.

try talking to a teacher.....they will tell you how difficult the job is to do right, and likely would tell you that adding security skills and distractions to their workload would be counterproductive.

Just exactly what do you want slick in your perfect world?? If you had complete control of the problem we have now. What would you do to fix it?

first off, I'm a realist, Buzz. I am aware that shit is going to happen....unpleasant shit. Addressing this problem is VERY complex. What would I do if in charge and had limitless money to spend on it? Here goes(roughly in order of importance):
1.COMPLETELY overhaul the mental health care system in this country. I mean fucking everything, from number of beds available for longterm care, to numbers of psychiatric professionals, to insurance coverage mandates....the whole ball of wax. We have, since Reagan, basically dumped the mentally ill onto our streets and waited until they harmed themselves or others to act. It is an ongoing drain on our society, the costs of which outweigh the cost of fixing the problem, IMHO.
2.COMPLETELY overhaul the way gun sales are both conducted and especially monitored. Gun sales advocates(NRA) have forced mandatory changes in the system that makes background checks ineffective and incomplete, record keeping sketchy, enforcement of straw sales and sales to incompetent persons lacking and actually encourages people toward violent remedies.
3.Rewrite the laws around gun violence and gun crimes in such a way as to punish those who refuse to secure and oversee the weapons they own. Too often, the story around some tragedy is that some kid or crazy person grabs a gun or guns that were essentially lying around poorly monitored. The gun owners have to take better responsibility and to do so, sadly, entails very stiff criminal penalties when they demonstrably fail to do so.

will this protect our nation from every incident of gun violence? Hardly. Will it keep kids from ever being harmed by a gun? Unlikely again. What my ideas will accomplish is the means to make such random acts of anger, stupidity or craziness FAR less likely. Do I think the country will even form the political will to spend the money and time to do the above things? Sadly, no.

[Pudfark]

Slick...

On your #1...Reagan had nothing to do with the proliferation of mental cases and or their treatment. This has been an ongoing problem since recorded history. The folks in Salem had a solution...back in the day.

Please to explain to me the "harm" being applied to Israeli children?
I know you don't like the "idea" of it. How many Israeli children vs U.S.
children have been harmed/attacked, murdered?

"Armed like a war zone" or "defenseless likes the Jews in WWII and beholding to everyone armed, including the government"... I'll be the first to admit that I have
"Trust Issues" with the above. Hell, "our" government couldn't protect four of our citizens..then they lied about it, covered it up for their personal gain. Knowing that,
you want me to agree to put kids at risk? No way.

[Buzz]

I'm not sure why everything you said couldn't be done slick along with arming teachers? You even admit that your way won't stop all the killings. Why not have the last stop...the schools be a stop for the loony's too?

Are the kids not worth doing everything possible to protect them?

[callmeslick]

Slick...

On your #1...Reagan had nothing to do with the proliferation of mental cases and or their treatment. This has been an ongoing problem since recorded history. The folks in Salem had a solution...back in the day.

if you believe this, YOU need mental help. Reagan, and to be fair, he did this out of sympathy for a very dubious warehousing approach in many states, mandated the release of a lot of long-term pscyhiatric patients, and the closing of a lot of the State Hospitals in the US. Look it up.

Please to explain to me the "harm" being applied to Israeli children?
I know you don't like the "idea" of it. How many Israeli children vs U.S.
children have been harmed/attacked, murdered?

quit comparing an active hostility zone to suburban America. Apples to oranges.

"Armed like a war zone" or "defenseless likes the Jews in WWII and beholding to everyone armed, including the government"... I'll be the first to admit that I have
"Trust Issues" with the above. Hell, "our" government couldn't protect four of our citizens..then they lied about it, covered it up for their personal gain. Knowing that,
you want me to agree to put kids at risk? No way.

huh? You expect me to attempt to make sense of this?

[callmeslick]

I'm not sure why everything you said could be done slick along with arming teachers?

because arming teachers is an incredibly stupid idea. We have plenty of those already.

You even admit that your way won't stop all the killings. Why not have the last stop...the schools be a stop for the loony's too?

at what cost? Sorry, but NO, Buzz. It is a dumb idea and antithetical to a good educational system.

Are the kids not worth doing everything possible to protect them?

nothing is absolute. In this case, you weigh the harm of sending kids daily to an armed camp over the risk of very rare incidents. It's a no-brainer. I repeat, arming teachers is not only impractical and ineffective(elements of surprise, etc), IT IS A STUPID IDEA!!

[Buzz]

Armed camp?? You sure dramatize everything. The teachers wouldn't be walking around with AK's strapped to their backs. It would be concealed handguns that the kids wouldn't even be aware of.

You want to teach kids? Teach them reality. Don't hide the world as it is from them.