Recent Example of Transformation.....

[ruggbutt]

The Flat Tax eliminates the IRS and can be made fair.

You're dreaming. When has a Federal Agency ever been eliminated?

[callmeslick]

Ya know Slick, I have a hard time believing that the government can't live on the average of 28% tax on all income. Yeah, some pay more and some pay less but that's what's coming in. They need to do something about the spending going out. And to do that we need to stop with all the bullshit government agencies that don't do shit. If I'm supposed to live within my budget and I'm not allowed to declare bankruptcy every few years I expect the government to as well. I can give you a short list of 50 agencies that really aren't needed in government. Time to cut back.

And let's not forget that the tax on oil and gasoline is 17% Federal plus whatever the state's cut is. There's plenty of taxing going on and plenty of it being wasted and given away for stupid reasons. There has to be cuts somewhere.

actually, the real percentage of income is WAY below that. Most folks with an income over around 500K pay less than 10% of total income into Federal Income Tax. And yes, there are a confusing mess of other taxes and fees. My suggestion would clean those up. Figure the budget, divvy the stuff up(with an exempted base income) and move forward. Yes, there will be waste to cut, and decisions over what to spend on stuff. As it stands now, so much is going out and coming in from so many directions, the confusion alone keeps any real change or improvement from happening. Oh, and yes, I have made this suggestion to the Obama folks. Not that I think they would take on some of the entrenched interests that prevent it from happening.

[Pudfark]

Nonsense... Put yer checkbook behind your mouth...Slick...cuz, until you do...your opinions have no value.....not even to the "poor".......

Old Pudfark sez: " Pony up...or STFU "...

[callmeslick]

Ya see, Pud, I DO put my checkbook up. That's why I can get access to public officials. If (and, as always, it's a challenge figuring out what the blazes you are trying to say) you are referring to my percentage estimates, I can provide this much: Over the past ten years, making less than 500K , but a substantial amount of money annually, my Federal Income tax averages 16.2% of my total income. And, a point to ponder, in my response to Ruggie is this: 5% of us make around 90% of the income. If we, as a group are running at that average, I think we can do better. And, no, before you ask me to kick in voluntarily, I have no intention of doing so until all of us do so.

[ruggbutt]

, my Federal Income tax averages 16.2% of my total income.

1) I need to meet your accountant. 2) You're making too much now, Obammy has you in the big boy's tax bracket. I doubt you mind paying more.

[Pudfark]

Slick...I have not refered to any percentages...that is between you and the Ruggstir....all I am saying...is this...just go "all in" with your check book for the poor and misfortunates....to sustain your credibility here....Or define, how far you are willing to go...and then define how far you are willing to be "told" to go.....then, at what point you would say "Hell, No"....Then folks could better unnerstan yer point.................Ya know...the one that says: How far will you go along with the government to rob me?

Old Pudfark sez: " hands up!! er, stand and deliver "

[callmeslick]

1. Capital gains tax- 15% Lotsa that in my total.
2. Tax writeoffs for solar panels, insulated windows, removing scrub timber on forest lands,
bug eradication on agricultural lands, etc, etc, etc.
3. My accountant does nothing special. In fact, both of us are honest to a fault, avoiding
any tax shelter or break that is so much a slightly iffy.
4. I am far from alone. One of my best friends, who I discussed this very matter with, equally
straightforward honest guy, averages about 18% on a mid-seven-figure annual take.
5. I've said this all along, for those of you who merely work to earn the bulk of your income:
You're getting hosed, and have been for damn near forever. I'll pass on saying, BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!
(but many wouldn't).

[callmeslick]

Slick...I have not refered to any percentages...that is between you and the Ruggstir....all I am saying...is this...just go "all in" with your check book for the poor and misfortunates....to sustain your credibility here....Or define, how far you are willing to go...and then define how far you are willing to be "told" to go.....then, at what point you would say "Hell, No"....Then folks could better unnerstan yer point.................Ya know...the one that says: How far will you go along with the government to rob me?

Old Pudfark sez: " hands up!! er, stand and deliver "

what I give: None of Your Business. My conscience is clear, and several Food Banks, Kitchens,
Drug Treatment Centers and Shelters seem grateful enough.

how far am I willing to go: For pure elective charity? I never figured it out, but plenty.

how far am I willing to be told to go: To support my nation, as a citizen?? My fair share of the budget, and
I define "fair" on the assumption that I can afford a lot more than the average citizen, so am thus
prepared to do so. This nation has been good to me, and my family, for a long time. I have no
issue with keeping it going. For that, I expect reasonable oversight over fraud and waste, but
expect to help sustain a nation that cares for it's poor and weak, defends itself and maintains
infrastructure and regulates the economy. Sort of like the founders envisioned.

the point at which I would say 'hell no'--If excessive waste and/or fraud set in, and wasn't addressed. And,
I am not suggesting that any program I don't agree with is 'waste' either. Or, if someone at the same
economic level as me didn't have to pay the same rates. In both cases, I would demand action.
Then again, I am very involved with politics, so this sort of shit doesn't creep up on me, like some
folks. It's sort of that informed citizenry thing I've been harping on.

Note, here, that I am talking about the case 'for me'.....I don't really care about what you do, so long as you pay your fair share....or leave.

[Pudfark]

As one of them there former "merely workers"...I take umbrage to that statement....

The old saying...biblical, I believe..."The meek shall inherit the earth"...certainly seems applicable in your case...Slick...

What kinda smart rebuke ya got for the poor and misfortunate unemployed or handicapped folks? Ya know, the ones who didn't inherit nothing.....

Old Pudfark sez: "Slick, did ya inherit yer opinions also?"

[ruggbutt]

Note, here, that I am talking about the case 'for me'.....I don't really care about what you do, so long as you pay your fair share....or leave.

Your (socialist) definition of fair share is different than mine is. I really like the "or leave" comment though, that kicks ass. I don't leave my house on my days off if I don't want to. I find it amusing that you have no problems allowing people who are here illegally to remain here but you have the gall to tell someone who is born here to leave. You have your priorities all fucked up, kid.