Opportunity for some "Honest Discourse"

[Pudfark]

Well.....How about this Slick? (looking for reasonable discourse)

What is the cost to a family of four? Middle thirties couple, with two kids age 8 and 10 for ObamaCare?
What coverage's will they have/include? What deductibles and how much? Will they be assigned a "health care provider" or will they choose one off a list? Where can this list be obtained? Where can they get a copy of their policy? What "dispute resolution" process will be used, should a "dispute" arise?

Nobody seems to know any of this?
Perhaps, you do?

[callmeslick]

Well.....How about this Slick? (looking for reasonable discourse)

What is the cost to a family of four? Middle thirties couple, with two kids age 8 and 10 for ObamaCare?
What coverage's will they have/include? What deductibles and how much? Will they be assigned a "health care provider" or will they choose one off a list? Where can this list be obtained? Where can they get a copy of their policy? What "dispute resolution" process will be used, should a "dispute" arise?

Nobody seems to know any of this?
Perhaps, you do?

I will give you exact answers in about 60 days, for Delaware.

[callmeslick]

The scenario repeats itself in western countries with socialized medicine.

Whew! Because if there is ONE thing Obamacare is NOT, it's socialized medicine. More like the opposite.

Partly because 'best practices' application by a third party, the government, does not result in overall better care because it does not cater to the uniqueness of the individual.

well, if you want every member of society treated with 'unique' care, that is REAL, REAL expensive, and I suspect most of your fellow citizens don't wish to pay for that. As it is, a major chunk of the US' high costs is stretching 'unique' care to some folks who cannot afford it. The other part is the massive divide between those folks and the other half or so.

If you can't recognize the value of free market solutions to a health care product, there is no point in you participating in this thread. You could just say "I don't believe the free market works best", etc, then show us examples of a government solution to a market problem that works better.

first off, Obamacare is free-market, largely. Second, I don't really agree that free market or capitalism ought to have a damned thing to do with healthcare, it ought to be a birthright. Examples: Medicare. despite obvious examples of fraud that get rooted out from time to time, it provides insurance coverage with 1/10 the overhead of private insurance. Another example: laugh all you will, but the damned Post Office. They deliver items and to places that private carriers won't touch, at a lower cost to the customer in most cases. They would be ridiculously successful if Congress hadn't mandated funding 30 years of pensions up front, something no private employer would consider.

[Barfly]

first off, Obamacare is free-market, largely. Second, I don't really agree that free market or capitalism ought to have a damned thing to do with healthcare

You are a silly man, Slick.

[Barfly]

The scenario repeats itself in western countries with socialized medicine.

Whew! Because if there is ONE thing Obamacare is NOT, it's socialized medicine. More like the opposite.

Partly because 'best practices' application by a third party, the government, does not result in overall better care because it does not cater to the uniqueness of the individual.

well, if you want every member of society treated with 'unique' care, that is REAL, REAL expensive, and I suspect most of your fellow citizens don't wish to pay for that. As it is, a major chunk of the US' high costs is stretching 'unique' care to some folks who cannot afford it. The other part is the massive divide between those folks and the other half or so.

If you can't recognize the value of free market solutions to a health care product, there is no point in you participating in this thread. You could just say "I don't believe the free market works best", etc, then show us examples of a government solution to a market problem that works better.

first off, Obamacare is free-market, largely. Second, I don't really agree that free market or capitalism ought to have a damned thing to do with healthcare, it ought to be a birthright. Examples: Medicare. despite obvious examples of fraud that get rooted out from time to time, it provides insurance coverage with 1/10 the overhead of private insurance. Another example: laugh all you will, but the damned Post Office. They deliver items and to places that private carriers won't touch, at a lower cost to the customer in most cases. They would be ridiculously successful if Congress hadn't mandated funding 30 years of pensions up front, something no private employer would consider.

Gotta save this unedited Slickery for comment when I get home.... Lotsa links and typing is too time consuming on the road with an iPad.

[callmeslick]

feel free.....try and find 'links' that show Obamacare to be anything other that a free-market system, driven by and for the insurers. And that, by the way, is my prime issue with it, because the insurers are part of the cost problem.

[Barfly]

feel free.....try and find 'links' that show Obamacare to be anything other that a free-market system, driven by and for the insurers. And that, by the way, is my prime issue with it, because the insurers are part of the cost problem.

Your consent is not required; but be prepared to rebutte with more than your imagination.

[Pudfark]

It seems nobody knows/has an idea at this time what the costs and coverage's will be...at least for another sixty days. Ok, I'll wait patiently. Here's a quick question for the meantime...What will you do if, it costs more and you're getting less? What options do ya have? What will the poor folks who can't afford any type of health care get, other'n a $750.00 fine/tax? What options will they have, if they don't like what is offered to them?

Not picking on anybody, just asking?

Also, I'm not getting in between Slick and Barfly just yet....
Note: I does has anne opinion, it'll wait...fer a bit.

[callmeslick]

feel free.....try and find 'links' that show Obamacare to be anything other that a free-market system, driven by and for the insurers. And that, by the way, is my prime issue with it, because the insurers are part of the cost problem.

Your consent is not required; but be prepared to rebutte with more than your imagination.

thus far, I haven't read anything that even required any imagination to rebut. Reality would suffice.

[callmeslick]

It seems nobody knows/has an idea at this time what the costs and coverage's will be...at least for another sixty days. Ok, I'll wait patiently. Here's a quick question for the meantime...What will you do if, it costs more and you're getting less? What options do ya have? What will the poor folks who can't afford any type of health care get, other'n a $750.00 fine/tax? What options will they have, if they don't like what is offered to them?

Not picking on anybody, just asking?

this much I DO know. If you are poor, and by definition that becomes like 50% above the current top income threshold for Medicaid, care is essentially free. From that point, up to around 100K household incomes(for a family) get some sort of tax rebate, tied to the overall costs of coverage. If you don't like what is offered you? I'd have to have something clearer than that. Not trying to be a smartass, but if the beef is with the cost, something would have gone horribly wrong, were the cost much more than currently available. The issue is that for the system to bring costs down, far more younger, generally healthier people need to be covered. Spreads the risk out more fairly, and when those young people get a catastrophic situation(heaven forbid, but it does happen), the whole population doesn't have to pick up the costs of their catastrophic care.