The Ukraine

[Pudfark]

What the Hell....................there fer a minute Slick, I thought you were gonna ask DH if'n he wanted a clean towel and a BJ...to go with that breath of fresh air?

[nicolas10]

Hahaha slick wants to attack Russia over some pussy riot bitches.

Holy shit I should find myself another planet to settle on.

Nic

[callmeslick]

Nic, I don't want to attack anyplace for anything. However, I think we(and especially the French, I would surmise) should have learned that simply standing by and allowing forced annexations sets the groundwork for something far worse.

[Pudfark]

Nic, I don't want to attack anyplace for anything. However, I think we(and especially the French, I would surmise) should have learned that simply standing by and allowing forced annexations sets the groundwork for something far worse.

Well that bold part above...pretty much throws the brakes on further progressive observations here.
Though, I will remark this...Slick, that's a notable flip-flop on yer part and I really like the "oui" part.
Further, your "stance" on "standing by and allowing forced", really relates well to yer history here.

Old Pudfark sez: " The Ukraine is now a given. "

[Darkhorse]

A day late but not at all short!

but, DH, there is that matter of the 1994 accord, which holds a higher level of response than the NATO accord.

It does not have any means of enforcement, http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-ex ... 80502.html
Putin thumbed his nose at the West knowing he would get away with it!

Also, I might note that what you seem to be rooting for is the same crew that pissed away a couple of trillion dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan, to no effect,
at the price of a few hundred million people being subjugated by the Russians beforehand.

A very big assumption on your part, (the whole making an ass of yourself thing!) OEF and OIF have not one thing to do with anything I have said! I was not a fan of the Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld show if that is the crew you speak of.

Even at the reduced levels, we spend more on our military than the rest of the planet put together. Suffice it to say, Obama has a LOT of weaponry to unload on Russia should he desire to.

For people that do not understand conventional warfare or any type of warfare all those figures on paper must seem very impressive. Power is not free, soft power does not work, power without holding the world accountable for their actions is abuse of that power.

The question is whether the US public would support it. My gut tells me that this nation is VERY weary of playing tough-guy.

The US public has been sitting on their soft fat asses with their hand out for too long but that is a subject for another time!

[callmeslick]

A day late but not at all short!

I just sort of figured that Captain Morgan won the battle yesterday!

It does not have any means of enforcement, http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-ex ... 80502.html
Putin thumbed his nose at the West knowing he would get away with it!

but, if, by economic sanctions, he tanks his own struggling economy(and it is ALREADY suffering from two-week old sanctions of a weak nature), did he 'get away' with anything?

A very big assumption on your part, (the whole making an ass of yourself thing!) OEF and OIF have not one thing to do with anything I have said! I was not a fan of the Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld show if that is the crew you speak of.

that is exactly the crew that espoused the sort of thinking you initially suggested.

For people that do not understand conventional warfare or any type of warfare all those figures on paper must seem very impressive. Power is not free, soft power does not work, power without holding the world accountable for their actions is abuse of that power.

I disagree to some extent. First off, the primary point of power in a Defense Department is, well, DEFENSE. That does not, to my mind, bring any obligation towards 'holding the world accountable', unless we are directly threatened. In Iraq, we were clearly not. Afghanistan can be seen as a needed message to send, we just did it by coupling sending the message with attempting to re-make a culture and society we didn't understand. Russian threats to return to the old Soviet bloc DO, to my mind, present a potential threat to our nation, in the same way that German annexation ultimately did. Those figures on paper, to me, reflect the scale of our 'defense' operations. Nothing more.

The US public has been sitting on their soft fat asses with their hand out for too long but that is a subject for another time!

you're probably right about that last bit(another subject), but I'll ask you this: Would a return to a military draft address that? I think the move to an all-volunteer force is one of the primary drivers of the effect you note(and with which I agree, to some extent, as it relates to global/military affairs).

[callmeslick]

by the way, DH.....Pud, above, mocks the tone with which I addressed you pre-Capt. Morgan. He views it as some sort of pandering or worse. Although, Lord knows, you and I have had some severe differences of opinion, and at times, I know my bluntness in responses has pissed you off, the above words you wrote show EXACTLY what this forum has lost: a real person, doing real thinking about real problems, and then stating their opinion as to how to address them. You aren't just screaming about folks who disagree with you being 'communists', or blabbering lies that were fed to you from partisan hacks. For that alone, I thank you, and appreciate it, and if Pud or others wish to mock my gratitude, they can shove their mockery up their respective asses.

[Pudfark]

by the way, DH.....Pud, above, mocks the tone with which I addressed you pre-Capt. Morgan. He views it as some sort of pandering or worse. Although, Lord knows, you and I have had some severe differences of opinion, and at times, I know my bluntness in responses has pissed you off, the above words you wrote show EXACTLY what this forum has lost: a real person, doing real thinking about real problems, and then stating their opinion as to how to address them. You aren't just screaming about folks who disagree with you being 'communists', or blabbering lies that were fed to you from partisan hacks. For that alone, I thank you, and appreciate it, and if Pud or others wish to mock my gratitude, they can shove their mockery up their respective asses.

Then...Slick, why don't ya write similar to DH and back it up with verifiable facts, like he does.
If'n ya wanna sit at the table and play "poker"? Ya gotta hold cards, not opinions. Cuz, yer gonna get "called" and holding hot air, don't win the pot.

Old Pudfark sez: " ante up...or...sit out. "

[callmeslick]

Then...Slick, why don't ya write similar to DH and back it up with verifiable facts, like he does.

I did. Sorry you can't grasp it, but I've come to take that for granted.

[Pudfark]

Then...Slick, why don't ya write similar to DH and back it up with verifiable facts, like he does.

I did. Sorry you can't grasp it, but I've come to take that for granted.

Good fer ya. How's about a little more often....than once in a blue moon...or when yer butterin' up somebody and then a few hundred posts later...throw something out there and act like ya do it all the time....