Senate Kills Keystone Pipeline project

[Pudfark]

Oh Yeah !!! They're dangerous..them pipelines...with all their leaks.

Here's a "pipeline" map of Houston..the fourth largest city in the U.S.

https://www.npms.phmsa.dot.gov/PublicVi ... posite.jsf

Now, what this map doesn't show....is all the natural gas stored underground in the southern part of the city in the "salt mines"....and that's huge. Natural Gas is a helluva lot more dangerous....than crude oil.
Though, if'n yer argument that it's safer to pipe it west, through Canada to the Chinks and Japs? Well, I suppose when it "leaks"....we can skim it off'n the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River?

[callmeslick]

like I said, pipes leak(all the time), because of the design of them. Most of the time, the leaks are very small, but they can add up in the wrong places. Trains and the like are less prone to leakage, but when they get into an accident, big issues erupt.
Oh, and the stored nat gas thing was interesting. I remember a story a while back showing how an explosion at Boston's regional gas storage facility could potentially take out 1/2 of downtown Beantown.

[Darkhorse]

well, someone DOES wish to do that, but the individual isn't an American....nor a financial backer of Obama. The safety issue, to me, seems a wash(pipes leak all the time, generally in small amounts), but the real political BS was around 'the Dems are trying to kill a huge jobs project'. When you are talking no more short term employment than a shopping mall build and less long term employment than a freaking bakery or meat packing plant, one has to wonder where politics reflects reality. Not that THAT disconnect is rare......

Damn you Slick, because of this thread you forced me to research the subject and now I have to agree with you. What will people think of me now? After looking at the data on the DOT NTSB site I see that leaking pipelines are problem and the sellers of the light crude want to use rail to get it to the markets that pay the most. http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20140 ... ety-debate
Damn you!

[HappyHappy]

Pudster, You are guilty of attempting to reason with idiots again.....



HH

[callmeslick]

well, someone DOES wish to do that, but the individual isn't an American....nor a financial backer of Obama. The safety issue, to me, seems a wash(pipes leak all the time, generally in small amounts), but the real political BS was around 'the Dems are trying to kill a huge jobs project'. When you are talking no more short term employment than a shopping mall build and less long term employment than a freaking bakery or meat packing plant, one has to wonder where politics reflects reality. Not that THAT disconnect is rare......

Damn you Slick, because of this thread you forced me to research the subject and now I have to agree with you. What will people think of me now? After looking at the data on the DOT NTSB site I see that leaking pipelines are problem and the sellers of the light crude want to use rail to get it to the markets that pay the most. http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20140 ... ety-debate
Damn you!

blind pigs, acorns and all! Thanks for acknowledging the matter. Like I tried to explain to Pud, pipe leakage is small, but constant. Rail offers the prospect of 99.99% reliability, but folks freak out at the very rare accident scenario.
Then again, you have Slappy, above, proving my reluctance to exchange thoughts here. Isn't he a prize?

[Pudfark]

well, someone DOES wish to do that, but the individual isn't an American....nor a financial backer of Obama. The safety issue, to me, seems a wash(pipes leak all the time, generally in small amounts), but the real political BS was around 'the Dems are trying to kill a huge jobs project'. When you are talking no more short term employment than a shopping mall build and less long term employment than a freaking bakery or meat packing plant, one has to wonder where politics reflects reality. Not that THAT disconnect is rare......

Damn you Slick, because of this thread you forced me to research the subject and now I have to agree with you. What will people think of me now? After looking at the data on the DOT NTSB site I see that leaking pipelines are problem and the sellers of the light crude want to use rail to get it to the markets that pay the most. http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20140 ... ety-debate
Damn you!

blind pigs, acorns and all! Thanks for acknowledging the matter. Like I tried to explain to Pud, pipe leakage is small, but constant. Rail offers the prospect of 99.99% reliability, but folks freak out at the very rare accident scenario.
Then again, you have Slappy, above, proving my reluctance to exchange thoughts here. Isn't he a prize?

Hmmm...what kind of fuel...do trains run on? Diesel to run the generators to produce electricity to power the train...that's very "green". How much fuel do they consume..compared to a pipeline? How does weather effect/affect pipelines...vs...trains. How often do pipelines "derail"...compared to trains? When is the last time...some poor unfortunate...was run over by a pipeline? When is the last time....ya had to wait...at a pipeline crossing? Why is Slick so freaked out about the very rare accident scenario...involving pipelines?

Pudster, You are guilty of attempting to reason with idiots again.....



HH

I plead guilty....of the aforementioned charges by HH.

Old Pudfark sez: " Slick...yer argument is about as valid? As putting a caboose back on a train... "

[callmeslick]

Hmmm...what kind of fuel...do trains run on? Diesel to run the generators to produce electricity to power the train...that's very "green".

actually, there is a VERY rapid conversion to NG powered locomotives going on. Only reason I know this is that father of grandkids was employed at one of the major players(Caterpiller).

How much fuel do they consume..compared to a pipeline? How does weather effect/affect pipelines...vs...trains. How often do pipelines "derail"...compared to trains? When is the last time...some poor unfortunate...was run over by a pipeline? When is the last time....ya had to wait...at a pipeline crossing? Why is Slick so freaked out about the very rare accident scenario...involving pipelines?

once again, your reading skills come in at 'fail'. What I am saying is that pipes, BY DESIGN, have to leak very small amounts constantly. You cannot have seamless piping. The rare accident comment refers to trains, which are very safe per unit of petroleum carried. Pipelines are fine for infrastructure use(around refinery complexes and petrochem plants), but carry constant threat of rupture maintenance and a CONSTANT slow release into the envioronment.

[Pudfark]

Used to have some good friends...involved in the selling and transporting of NG, CNG, LNG and gasoline,diesel and other chemicals through pipelines and other vessels. Do you know how these "refined" fuels/chemicals are transported from the refineries? I don't believe that you do...try some google on.

Did you know that multiple grades of gasoline can be transported via pipline along with multiple grades of diesel and JetA not to mention 100ll and upon reaching their destination...can be separated there....and then distributed? I'm betting ya didn't know that either.

I could tell ya more...however, HH would prolly upgrade my charges....to a felony.

If'n ya really care...do some homework...the above I wrote...is just to get ya started.

[callmeslick]

Used to have some good friends...involved in the selling and transporting of NG, CNG, LNG and gasoline,diesel and other chemicals through pipelines and other vessels. Do you know how these "refined" fuels/chemicals are transported from the refineries? I don't believe that you do...try some google on.

a read of my words above as to ideal utilization of piping would show that I do. That has utterly no relevance to a discussion of a larger bore, long distance pipeline, with a couple thousand miles of distance for the maintenance crews to keep up with.

Did you know that multiple grades of gasoline can be transported via pipline along with multiple grades of diesel and JetA not to mention 100ll and upon reaching their destination...can be separated there....and then distributed? I'm betting ya didn't know that either.

well, I did, but then again, I grew up with a petrochemical engineering whiz.

I could tell ya more...however, HH would prolly upgrade my charges....to a felony.

If'n ya really care...do some homework...the above I wrote...is just to get ya started.

you showed the superficial knowledge most Houston residents OUGHT to know. You didn't, as I tried to point out above, address the wholly separate issue of a larger OD pipeline, dedicated to very dirty crude, travelling over open land for long distances, and leaking minute amounts from the day they turn the valves to open the flow, and subject to environmental threats over a wide range of terrain.

[callmeslick]

we won't even discuss the concept of 2000 miles of new target for terrorist sabotage, becuase, well, such matters are so George Bush era in nature.