slick

[Dawg]

name calling aside
When Blue Cross/Blue Shield started raising rates by absurd amounts the conclusion was simple.

The fix is in. Obama cut a deal with them to handle the paperwork for the public option, in turn they're raising rates by absurd amounts to give him the ammo he needs to push the bill through.

The "fine" for not insuring your employees is 3K, per person. (additionally the writing is on the wall to allow taxation of those new benefits.

I bet You have an idea no doubt what small business pays per person to insure them? How long before thousands of big companies like walmart say, sure we'll pay the 3K per and save millions.

How much does YOUR health care plan cost? Would your company benefit by paying a fine? Say its a 10K fine, per person. How long do you think before the company rolls over? Say its 20K per person? How much in the last 5 years has your health plan cost the company? Over the next five with the NEW increases?

Glenside, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- President Obama on Monday tore into private health insurers for recent rate hikes, taking a more aggressive rhetorical turn as he pushes for final congressional passage of his top domestic priority.

why would he slam them?? He should be, and is grateful!!
Private rates skyrocket, who's to save us? Yup, the uber cheap government health plan.


how can the answer not be as simple as to have tort reform, and be able to shop for insurance over state lines?
how can the government possibly run health care better than it is now? I'm at a loss to find any government run "business" be it the post office, schools, VA, anything better than private sector.

[ruggbutt]

If I have to spend $3k to insure my employees I have two choices. 1) Drop their wages by several dollars an hour. 2) Lay them off and go back to being a one man show. In this fucked up economy that's all the choice I have.

[Dawg]

If I have to spend $3k to insure my employees I have two choices. 1) Drop their wages by several dollars an hour. 2) Lay them off and go back to being a one man show. In this fucked up economy that's all the choice I have.

I'm guessing you dont offer insurance, right?
so...that supports my thought- you will simply pay the fine and keep on doing business if you want to keep a crew. Pass it on to the consumer, lol

[Pudfark]

Well...this is gonna sound kinda chicken....but you could "contract labor" them and a 1099 at the end of the year.....and that don't do nothing to solve the "perceived" problem..... Ya know..a problem being promoted, by a few wealthy individuals, who are not personally affected by it, like Nancy Pelosi...whose personal fortune is estimated to be approx. $100 million and who sits around drinking her wine....pissing in yer ear...and listening to you whine.....(no offense to the conservative folks)

Old Pudfark sez " Massa has left the building "

[callmeslick]

If I get your point, Dawg, you are saying that less small employers will opt to cover under the Obama plan.
You may be correct, but the exchanges will pick them up. The fine, as I understand it, will pressure a larger corporation to kick in, but smaller employers are exempt up to a point. Now, my employer is kicking in $9000 per year for my policy now(I pay another 3 grand or more).
I think some out there silently hope that huge numbers get dumped into the exchanges, and then you will get something approaching a large single payer pool for anyone not on a major corp or union plan. And, if so, the pressure could be put to bear to drive down prices.

[callmeslick]

btw, Dawg, I appreciate the 'name calling aside' moment.....this might be a good time for me to try, in some fashion, to lay out the pros and cons of the health bill(that should fire up the name calling!):

I'll even start with the negatives--first, too little is done to guarantee cost control. In other words, health care premiums could still go up. Second, by leaving out public option, the opportunity to squeeze the insurers is frittered away(this is why Dem support is so lukewarm). In short, this bill is a wussy compromise that is way too easy on insurers. It clearly is NOT, in most fashions, a government takeover of health care at all.
And, IMHO, that is not good, as we will remain the only major industrial nation without a government guarantee of health insurance, continuing to put our employers at a disadvantage on the global stage, and causing us to sink further in health outcomes, where we currently rank around 21st worldwide.

The positives--85% of the currently uninsured should be able to get some sort of affordable coverage, probably limited to near-catastrophic coverage, but at least preventing the huge numbers now bankrupting themselves over health costs. There may be enough folks going through the insurance exchanges to be able to pool into a cost advantage, putting mild pressure on established plans. Cost containment in Medicare via tougher rules on fraud and more enforcement monies should save the Treasury some serious bucks over time.
Probably, the biggest positive is that it will, over the near term, end up showing the public that the status quo can change, and might lead to a more serious look at the status quo and lead to further changes down the road. In other words, you have to start to reform in smaller steps, and that is what this bill provides.
It won't cost the taxpayers very much money, if any, and has a net positive outcome for most people.

So, to sum up, it's well known that I've advocated here, for a long time, for the need to go to a single payer US Health Insurance plan. It isn't going to happen yet. Thus, I'm not overjoyed with the bill. But, I do agree with one thing Obama says....doing nothing is a ticket for disaster, and soon, for the nation. So, I figure, baby steps are better than no steps.

[callmeslick]

When Blue Cross/Blue Shield started raising rates by absurd amounts the conclusion was simple.

The fix is in. Obama cut a deal with them to handle the paperwork for the public option, in turn they're raising rates by absurd amounts to give him the ammo he needs to push the bill through.

except, there is no public option in the current bill, and Blue Cross isn't raising rates as much as a couple of other insurers, overall.

how can the answer not be as simple as to have tort reform, and be able to shop for insurance over state lines?

because tort reform would, at best, address only 1% of total costs to consumers, probably far less. And,
shopping across state lines SOUNDS good, until you think about it. What it will mean is that pretty soon, all the available insurance will be sold out of the handful of states that have virtually no regulation over restrictions, payouts, etc. In other words, the states allowing the shittiest coverage options, with the best profits for the insurers.

how can the government possibly run health care better than it is now? I'm at a loss to find any government run "business" be it the post office, schools, VA, anything better than private sector.

the question ought to be, and is, for far too many people, "how could they do any worse?". Medicare and Medicaid have FAR lower administrative costs than private insurers, something seemingly overlooked by many.
The post office?? Law demands that they deliver every piece of junk mail at low cost, to the door of every citizen, and you compare their service to who, exactly?? If FEDEX or UPS ran things, you'd be paying $1.00
to mail a letter, and it would cost businesses a fortune to advertise, killing commerce. What schools does the government run, at the federal level, beyond Service Academies? VA, you may have a point, but still tasked with a complex mission, so I couldn't tell you if/how it could be run better. All in all, to get back to healthcare, the rest of the world gets as good, or better health outcomes at 2/3 the price per citizen. Shouldn't we try and see if we can match that, or do even better? The fact is, despite a load of BS to the contrary, the US Healthcare system is an expensive mess that bankrupts citizens, leaves the poorest to a patchwork of clinics and emergency rooms(where they drive up costs and hinder true emergency services),
allows a for-profit bureaucracy to determine life and death far, far too often, and kills our industries with overhead. And, you would ask, "how can government do better"??

[Pudfark]

Quote:
how can the government possibly run health care better than it is now? I'm at a loss to find any government run "business" be it the post office, schools, VA, anything better than private sector.


the question ought to be, and is, for far too many people, "how could they do any worse?". Medicare and Medicaid have FAR lower administrative costs than private insurers, something seemingly overlooked by many.

Well the answer to that...is right in front of you.....and very apparent. The result of "far lower adminstrative costs than private insurers" is the principal reason Medicare and Medicaid are in so much financial trouble....They do not have the staff to monitor, keep up with and control it and document it for increased funding..... Insurance companies do those sorts of things and raise premiums to adjust for it...and also reduce premiums for the same reasons....because, they have to remain competitive....and the Government doesn't....and that there guarantees some "real savings" .....Right?

Old Pudfark sez: " If'n the government is saving me so much money? Why am I paying more taxes? "