President Obama Supports 'Ground Zero Mosque'

[nicolas10]

It would seem Nicky....that you are enjoying Sarkozy...

Sarkozy = all of the above

only smaller

[callmeslick]

the same people have the true power, and have had it for decades if not centuries.

and explain, Nic, what earthly purpose 'those people' would wish to attack Iran for? Second, I can safely assure you, most of 'those people' were fucking appalled that we invaded Iraq.

[ruggbutt]

Ok, did some serious thinking although I'm torn between both sides that I feel for regarding the mosque. First things first: It's a fact that the muzzies like to put a mosque where they've a conquest. One only need look at Jerusalem to see that many churches are now mosques. They tried to build it on ground zero, that try failed. So that sets a precedent in my mind that they're looking to take a "shot" at the infidels. Second: The Constitution allows religion of all kinds. However, putting a mosque at ground zero (or close by) is not a constitutional right. Third: The government has been looking into where the 100 mil is coming from to build this mosque. They aren't saying. The conspiracist in me says it's funded by drugs and terrorism. I'd bet money I'm right.

The other side says that maybe we should turn the other cheek, be tolerant and allow them to build. To show them that we're better than they are. But then it keeps popping into my head, we've done that by backing muslims in conflicts over and over again. We shut down the Serbs in Bosnia, backing the little guy (muslims). We continue to try to "help" Palestine with peace in the mid east even though there's a 4000 year history of islamic intolerance. So then the man in me steps up and says it's about time we stand up and say what we have to say. No politically correct bullshit. No trying to be understanding (we've done that for decades). It's time we show them in terms that make sense to them that we aren't gonna take it any more.

We need to tell them build it elsewhere. They need to understand that someone is gonna burn it down before it's built. It's only been 9 years and that's not long enuf for New Yorker's to "be over it". The Constitution (and Bill of Rights) gives us the right to free speech, but not to yell "fire!!!" in a crowded movie theater. Let 'em build their mosque elsewhere, it's only being built to make a point to the muslims of the world that their religion is the only one. And that shit don't fly here. Let 'em worship, I could give a shit less. But 9 years ain't enuf. I can honestly say that if they were going to try to build a mosque in my neighborhood I'd prolly be committing any number of felonies.

[callmeslick]

Rugg's assessment, and weighing of both sides, in some way mirrors mine. As a nation, I'd hope that we come down(especially our government officials, most especially our President) on the side of showing that we stand by our principles. I would hope that the Muslim group finds a compromise site that avoids any stupid overreaction. Interesting point to observe is the near-even split between victims and family members of deceased victims.

I suppose this is my whole issue with how some folks view America, politics and life. Nuance is damned near constant in almost every situation(yes, I can think of exceptions) that involves mankind. Those that don't, or won't see that nuance have been dominating the discourse for too long. It IS time to claim our country back.
I just differ from some here and elsewhere as to who and what we need to claim it back from.

[Daiichidoku]

is there some country called "muslim" that i havent heard of?

it is by americans, for americans

[ruggbutt]

is there some country called "muslim" that i havent heard of?

it is by americans, for americans

Let's look at it a different way. Say the ATF wanted to build a building in Waco, where they killed a dozen or so children. Wouldn't you think that would go over as well as a lead balloon? Some of us feel the same way about the mosque.

The other thing to look at is vandalism that will most certainly take place if it's built. Vandalism by Americans. New Yorkers. Friends of people who were killed. And in return it gives the muzzies another "reason" to make an attempt to destroy our society. It's a viscious circle. The smart thing to do is to explain that they aren't going to zone it for that neighborhood and have them move on. That and only that (IMHO) will sidestep what many of us see as coming if it's built. As much as I'm no fan of muzzies I was outraged when someone killed a muslim here shortly after 9/11. I can understand the anger but it was wrong.

[callmeslick]

The smart thing to do is to explain that they aren't going to zone it for that neighborhood and have them move on.

too late for that. Zoning was approved months ago, the final step was certification that the building held no special historical preservation protection. It was the hearing on that matter that drew the sudden(can you say "election year politics"?) national brouhaha.

That and only that (IMHO) will sidestep what many of us see as coming if it's built. As much as I'm no fan of muzzies I was outraged when someone killed a muslim here shortly after 9/11. I can understand the anger but it was wrong.

One can only hope that the vast majority of Americans see the right and wrong on this sort of thing. I think they do. Even with the scars which most New Yorkers still carry over the matter of 9/11, a surprisingly large number defend this building project strongly. That many oppose it strongly is understandable as well.

[nicolas10]

and explain, Nic, what earthly purpose 'those people' would wish to attack Iran for? Second, I can safely assure you, most of 'those people' were fucking appalled that we invaded Iraq.

1/ Those people make shitloads of $ during any war
2/ Had the US not attacked Iraq, the dollar would have taken the plunge, since saddam decided to trade oil in €
3/ Ratings agencies attacked the € to give a breath of fresh air to the $ by attacking greece's ratings and putting the crisis on the €
4/ If hamadinedjad decides to trade in € despite all of this, the US are going in. I've said it a while ago and I stand by my forecast.

Nic

[Daiichidoku]

sorry, ATF/Waco is apples and oranges, unless you care to point out the smilarities i'm missing?

the only ppl that feel its bad taste are those ignorant enough to feel that muslim americans are collectively responsible in any way for 911 attacks

vandalism is unfortunately likely, but not particularly out of place, as too many others suffer this too often, synagogues and jewish cemetarys spring to mind as places that have vandalism fairly regularly, relatively speaking

[nicolas10]

Do you advocate vandalism druidish style?