wait a minute....

[ruggbutt]

Clinton began the massive deregulation. He and Hillary thought that everyone should be able to buy a home. Hell, everyone should be able to buy a Ferrari, but few can afford it. And that's what the left doesn't get. They spend like there's no tomorrow and the people do the same thing, because they know the gubmint is going to bail them out. And the rest of us who are responsible are the ones who get the shaft.

[callmeslick]

Clinton began the massive deregulation. He and Hillary thought that everyone should be able to buy a home.

hmmm, you might want to go and actually read the facts, and come back to us on that one. I don't recall Clinton EVER making that statement.....although Bush did.

Hell, everyone should be able to buy a Ferrari, but few can afford it. And that's what the left doesn't get. They spend like there's no tomorrow and the people do the same thing, because they know the gubmint is going to bail them out. And the rest of us who are responsible are the ones who get the shaft.

I'd agree, but it isn't a left-right thing. The vast bulk of the American public feels that way. We have become a lazy, spendthrift, possessions-oriented culture. Politics has nothing to do with that, either.

[CUDA]

sorry, chief, but that wasn't when they had any real say. Look to Phil Gramm and others, and the fact that most of the deregulation occured between 1994 and 2004 ought to clue you into what party ran the show.
Even then, if we are to assume the political aspect came slowly over a decade or more, when, in a nation supposedly built upon individual freedoms, do we take the individuals who signed contracts(both sides) off the hook?

I notice you clearly didn't address the issue of the Governments fault in this. while I "might" have been in partial error on what regulation caused this mess. the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act that you refer to has been pointed to an issue that WORSENED the mortgage crisis, but it did not cause it. blaming the people solely for what happened it extremely short sighted. were the people responsible for their actions? yes. but it is the Governments responsibility to protect the people from their own stupidity and the populace from corporate greed

Both government failed regulation and deregulation contributed to the crisis. In testimony before Congress both the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Alan Greenspan conceded failure in allowing the self-regulation of investment banks

In 1996, HUD set a goal for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that at least 42% of the mortgages they purchase be issued to borrowers whose household income was below the median in their area. This target was increased to 50% in 2000 and 52% in 2005.

so in 1996 it was Hud's MANDATE to Fannie and Freddie that they Offer loan's to people that could not afford OR meet the criteria to qualify for a home loan

How HUD Mortgage Policy Fed The Crisis
Subprime Loans Labeled 'Affordable'

By Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 10, 2008

In 2004, as regulators warned that subprime lenders were saddling borrowers with mortgages they could not afford, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development helped fuel more of that risky lending.

Eager to put more low-income and minority families into their own homes, the agency required that two government-chartered mortgage finance firms purchase far more "affordable" loans made to these borrowers. HUD stuck with an outdated policy that allowed Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to count billions of dollars they invested in subprime loans as a public good that would foster affordable housing.

Housing experts and some congressional leaders now view those decisions as mistakes that contributed to an escalation of subprime lending that is roiling the U.S. economy.

The agency neglected to examine whether borrowers could make the payments on the loans that Freddie and Fannie classified as affordable. From 2004 to 2006, the two purchased $434 billion in securities backed by subprime loans, creating a market for more such lending. Subprime loans are targeted toward borrowers with poor credit, and they generally carry higher interest rates than conventional loans.

the Government has a responsibility to protect the people. their failure to do so lead to this crisis. this was a fault of Leadership, not as much as the people that followed that lead.

[callmeslick]

....were the people responsible for their actions? yes. but it is the Governments responsibility to protect the people from their own stupidity and the populace from corporate greed

wow! and thank you. You've just moved from the conservative side to a straightforward Progressive position.
And, it will be just that responsibility and how to pay for it that will determine the near future of this nation.

Both government failed regulation and deregulation contributed to the crisis. In testimony before Congress both the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Alan Greenspan conceded failure in allowing the self-regulation of investment banks

I did say that the government was responsible(hence the role of politics) for that much.

[CUDA]

....were the people responsible for their actions? yes. but it is the Governments responsibility to protect the people from their own stupidity and the populace from corporate greed

wow! and thank you. You've just moved from the conservative side to a straightforward Progressive position.
And, it will be just that responsibility and how to pay for it that will determine the near future of this nation.

Actually this is the quintessential conservative position. and a Biblical based stance. not that I follow the teaching of the Bible but it's not what some people call conservatism today.

As far as paying for it. First the Government MUST STOP OVER SPENDING. they must pull the tit out of the mouth of those sucking on the government hand outs and MAKE THEM RESPONSIBLE make them stand on their own two feet.
I think Benjamin Franklin stated my position as well as I ever could

I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer

Benjamin Franklin

Once they do that then I'm all in favor of a tax raise "IF" necessary to lower the deficit. but those things will never happen, because politicians do not care about governance. Politicians care about pandering to stay in power. so they will continue to pander to those willing to vote for them.

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Both government failed regulation and deregulation contributed to the crisis. In testimony before Congress both the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Alan Greenspan conceded failure in allowing the self-regulation of investment banks

I did say that the government was responsible(hence the role of politics) for that much.

I must have missed that my apologies

[Pudfark]

Oh those dumb voters! I count myself as one of them, that thinks all the stimulus did, net, is destroy value. You have to weigh the claimed short term benefit, against the cost of borrowing the money or the devaluing effect of printing that money during a slow growth period.

Gubment stimulus is akin to economic cannibalism IMO. E.g. Lets say a hunter/gatherer named Slick Maynard Keynes, is going through a period of extreme hunger or starvation. Instead of being creative and adapting to the realities of his environment, he eats part of his arm. Ouch! But hey, the short term nutritional boost was worth it! If he keeps that up it will self-critiquing, just like the massive and ineffective stimulus spending in the US in the 30s or in Japan in the 90s. Unless of course he is heavily sedated by ideological fantasies that keep his head out of reality. Of course it's a silly analogy; our cannibal slick wouldn't eat his own arm; he'd eat his neighbors'.

(was that a good Pud imitation? Hehe)

Yes, it was and I approve this message.....

Old Pudfark sez: " Nice analogy... "

[Pudfark]

[Buzz]

Cmon Pud. 2 year old thread?

[Pudfark]

Yeah...I noticed that...
I'm beginning to think my old link to here....got hosed? Some how?

[callmeslick]

Cmon Pud. 2 year old thread?

hey, when I post them, they're fucking timeless classics, alright?

I just figure Pud so missed arguing with me when I was out in Indiana, he had to get nostalgic for my older material.