A Complete Waste of Space

Pudfark wrote:No, you are.

Same shit. Different day.

Barfly wrote:Lol. You've admitted you are a Progressive. Most people in this country are not liberal (american liberal) or progressive, so deception is required to advance that agenda, and you take part in that. Willingly or unwittingly.

There ya go. "Progressive"... your word. Your friend Ted Nugent would call you a "Regressive", which I agree is more appropriate.

I have no problem being called a Progressive, and am proud to consider myself Progressive. This nation was founded by Progressives, damn near radical Progressives for their time in history. So, I stand firm with the 12 generations in this nation who came before me.

You're nothing like those who founded this country. Their political beliefs are opposite yours.

ruggbutt wrote:You're nothing like those who founded this country. Their political beliefs are opposite yours.

ummm, not really. Very similar, actually. I have the benefit of 240 years of change and progress, stuff like the Industrial Revolution, and all that. Still, they were people who wanted a fair society, believed in a government that could change with the times, slowly, after thoughtful debate between serious individuals. They wanted a barebones military and fair commerce for the little guy. And, most importantly, as I stated before, for the times they lived in they were near-radical Progressives, willing to gamble on laying down the foundation for a new nation that could withstand unforseen changes. Bless them all.

"This nation was founded by Progressives"

No it wasn't. Lets look at Progressive Founding Fathers:

Herbert Crowly:

"...well known among American Progressives (at least among intellectuals) as the "master thinker" of their movement."

"Herbert Crowly espoused the view that social learning should replace individualism, and that individual liberty must be subordinated. Modern psychology would discover the truths about human nature, making perfectly planned communities possible. Croly favored the abolition of natural rights; the abolition of the separation of governmental powers; and the abolition of congressional representation. He admired Vladimir Lenin and despised free political institutions. His dream was to overthrow the political system of America, and replace constitutional officeholders with a bureaucracy of social science experts—free from any legal constraints (to act as they see fit)."

"Herbert Croly demanded the radical repudiation of the U.S. Constitution and the Founding Fathers"

http://james-a-watkins.hubpages.com/hub/Progressives

Woodrow Wilson:

"He was steeped in German philosophy and state theory—which sharply contrasts with the fundamental principles of American constitutionalism. Wilson was critical of the limited government established by the Founding Fathers, and he objected to their declarations of permanent principles"

"Wilson sought to circumvent the Constitution by implementing government power through regulations, rather than the cumbersome process of enacting laws"

John Dewey:

"There is no sanctity in universal suffrage, frequent elections, majority rule, congressional and cabinet government. They are to be modified to suit the needs of the state."

"John Dewey was a Socialist who disdained personal power and private profit. He thought the New Deal was way too conservative for him. He believed all wealth should be redistributed equally to everyone. He believed that the government should own all utilities, natural resources, banking, transportation, and communications—at the very least. He set the curriculum for American Public Schools for generations—even now."

Franklin Roosevelt:

"His ideas departed from the ideas of the Founding Fathers of America, particularly when he declared "freedom from want" as a basic right of all Americans. This opened the floodgates to today's notions of "rights" to almost anything imaginable.

Under President Roosevelt, the federal government expanded its powers to incredible levels, and in the process greatly diminished what were the traditional roles of private charity, civil society, and local community in American life. Roosevelt accomplished a fundamental transformation in the character of American government.

Roosevelt asserted that the American Founders did not go far enough in describing the rights all people should have. He claimed that all people had a "right" to make a comfortable living, the opportunity to work for decent wages. It was the job of the government—not individual initiative (gumption) or business (entrepreneurs)—to assure this was the reality"

John Rawls:

"John Rawls believed in equal distribution of wealth, and was opposed to those who are talented or industrious earning any advantage to those who are not. He was also opposed to publicly valuing achievement, since every person should be publicly valued equally. To Rawls, no person deserved their talents, so why should they deserve the fruits of their talents or labors? The natural assets of different individuals should be regarded as commonly owned, in his view. This is Social Justice. "

Unlimited government, the dissolution of "natural rights", "freedom from want", redistribution of wealth, "social justice". These are the principles you support as a "Progressive".

You are proud advocate a slow-burn revolution of statist ideas; they are not the founders ideas. You may imagine yourself a revolutionary, but you're not one with the "Founders" principles of government. Did you wear a Che t-shirt when you were a dope smoking, acid dropping hippy?

once again, Barfly, with answers straight out of the Conservative Idiot's guide to Progressive Politics. The idea of being a Progressive, or liberal by the traditional type of political definition, long pre-dates and survives the short-lived Progressive Political movement of the early-mid 20th century. Funny how those Conservative histories conveniently leave out Teddy Roosevelt, and barely touch on LaFollette or those who learned from him, up to Hubert Humphrey and other later Midwestern pols.

So, Barfly, why didn't you answer my previous set of questions? Couldn't do it, could you? So, you resort to more BS and made up history and blithely ignore the fact that you lied about me earlier in the thread. Nice job. Attaboy!

Modern American lliberals are not "classical" liberals... you are trying to say they are the same? If so that is a very old trick.

callmeslick wrote:once again, Barfly, with answers straight out of the Conservative Idiot's guide to Progressive Politics. The idea of being a Progressive, or liberal by the traditional type of political definition, long pre-dates and survives the short-lived Progressive Political movement of the early-mid 20th century. Funny how those Conservative histories conveniently leave out Teddy Roosevelt, and barely touch on LaFollette or those who learned from him, up to Hubert Humphrey and other later Midwestern pols.

So, Barfly, why didn't you answer my previous set of questions? Couldn't do it, could you? So, you resort to more BS and made up history and blithely ignore the fact that you lied about me earlier in the thread. Nice job. Attaboy!

I call you a modern Progressive, and you imply that you are just a classical liberal by a different name. You are not a classical liberal if you are a modern Progressive, and this is just one example of attempting to rewrite the past, that is a part of your statist ideology.

Damn...wish I'd been around earlier this evening
Barfly, you got the bat....Slick, you be the ball.

The difference?
Between folks, Slick?
Your agenda is to trick,slick,bend,manipulate and connive the good folks.
When that doesn't work... cajole, bad mouth and deprecate come in to play.
Darn the bad luck...if that doesn't get the job done...well, here comes name calling
and "racism". For years, many, you got to hide in the "apathy" that many Americans
wrongfully, mistakenly, misguidedly and stupidly fell into....It was our fault, our blame, our responsibility and perhaps our miss perception. Our Bad. That being acknowledged? It's now our turn. See what happens.

All my life, I've believed, comported myself, in Truth, Justice and the American Way.
You don't.

Barfly wrote:Modern American lliberals are not "classical" liberals... you are trying to say they are the same? If so that is a very old trick.

actually, no they are not. Libertarians are classic liberals