someone thinking about a real issue.....

[Pudfark]

Bingo HH.....

All you have to do is the math.....I've been saying that for almost a year....I don't think any of the "others" will take you up on that, as they are to busy interpreting the math, to apply it.

[Pudfark]

Well Slick?

Sound rational planning? Where? By that do you mean, the most expensive to manufacture, least durable and with the highest cost per KWH ? How is that going to help our industry? How is that gonna help the poor folks now? How about you invest a few minutes to substantiate your "sound rational planning" and see what the cost per KWH is for each type of electricity generating method that you have proposed?

It ain't hard to find out.....If you really care?

Old Pudfark sez: " I like my chicken fried....others like it microwaved "

[Daiichidoku]

Running out of oil? It was blowing out of the gulf floor at an alarming rate.

BTW, oil is still being created on this planet. All that stuff about it being dead dinosaurs and shit is pure BS.

it doesnt renew at a rate that could let one say that the planets oil supply, given current and foreseeable usage, is infinite. it has been a finite quanity since the first drill ever went down sir

remember, the oil was created and sat for millions of years, accumulating, until the last what? 200 years now? and you think the oil-making process is such that as much as we use, it will always be renewing itself?

New Mexico governor Bill Richardson, who formerly headed the Department of Energy, in a live television interview 2 hours into the blackout characterized the United States as "a superpower with a third-world electricity grid." In Europe, this statement was published accompanied with comparisons highlighting the tighter, safer and better interconnected European electricity network (though it would suffer a similar blackout six weeks later).

Ever been to New Mexico? THE LAND OF dis-ENCHANTMENT? It's a fairy land of rich white yuppie/old hippie environmentalists. It's also land of dirt poor native Americans sucked into a life on the government tit on the "REZ". I bet ol' Bill is far more concerned with the old hippies than he is the rest of the people in state. He's a piss poor Democrat too, because he cut the income tax in his state and gave tax incentives to business. He's not towing the party line.[/quote]

nope, never been

i wouldnt care if NM is a state conprised of outer-mongolian coke-addicted parapalegic hemophiliac lesbian elvis impersonators with no sense of feng shui, nor who the governor is, or his policies
fact is, whether or not he had actual data to source his claim, many others have stated the same, and a quick research of USAs national power grid will show that indded, the infrastructure for most of it is old, and has needed replacement for some time
the symptoms (power shortages and/or hardware/admin failures) will continue to show, and probably with increasing frequency, as it gets older and demand goes up

too bad the gov of NM is such a dick...par for the course for most US state and fed poloticos?
if he;s not acting like a dem., perhaps he should or will "turn"? or perhaps get washed out next election? out of the scope of this discussion however

(BTW, its "toe the line" )

[Daiichidoku]

Ya ever hear of a hail storm? Where ya gonna put them solar panels? In a basement?
Sound rational planning? Where? By that do you mean, the most expensive to manufacture, least durable and with the highest cost per KWH ? How is that going to help our industry? How is that gonna help the poor folks now? How about you invest a few minutes to substantiate your "sound rational planning" and see what the cost per KWH is for each type of electricity generating method that you have proposed? [/b]

ever hear of solar farms sited in known high precipitation area?

inital and ramp-up costs are always going to be high, not to mention R&D
sooner you start, less it will be, and will only get cheaper as you get further into it

how much will it cost when the oil does run out and your left with your dick in your hand and everyone else with the tech involved as "de-rigeur"?



this post of yours is why i wont respond to most of what you write

[Daiichidoku]

China is laughing it's ass off...as they don't give a damn about clean energy for themselves...only for the U.S. Why? We will be giving them our remaining share of the world wide market.....

China has been going through a moderm western style development for some time now

the bonus for them is, they have previous examples of the challenges and problems faced by USA and other western economies during phases of development now facing Chinese, they have the lessons they need to (hopefully) avoid some pitfalls
the bane is, many of the problems are unavoidable, and they will suffer in areas; be sure, eventually they WILL care about clean energy, even more so than USA even can, given China's population and the risk to health of such a large number

[Daiichidoku]

Enforce a one child policy like China does WORLD WIDE.
Forced sterialisation after one birth.

please back this up

i know you cant, because this is not the matter at all in China

as a matter of fact, the policy is that the state only subsidies ONE child per family for education

there is an important distinction in China, between those who live in the country, and those in the cities; those in the country tend to have large families, as they need the hands for farming, schooling is pointless and unaffordable for them

in the cities, more ppl have money, and will pay out of pocket for as many children beyond the first that they can, for the childs entire education
thus income is the largest factor for family planning in urban China

[callmeslick]

Want to panic?
World population is at a unsustainable level and we are breeding like mice.
Want to do the world a favor?
Enforce a one child policy like China does WORLD WIDE.
Forced sterialisation after one birth.
Even if we could all agree to that the world population will double over the next 30 years.

and, in a brief moment of agreement, I'll agree with HH that this is the fundamental, elephant-in-the-room problem, the core issue. My only disagreement with the above is that from what I've seen and read at times on the Interweb, perhaps forced sterilization before one birth would have been advisable in quite a few cases.

[callmeslick]

Well Slick?

Sound rational planning? Where? By that do you mean, the most expensive to manufacture, least durable and with the highest cost per KWH ? How is that going to help our industry? How is that gonna help the poor folks now? How about you invest a few minutes to substantiate your "sound rational planning" and see what the cost per KWH is for each type of electricity generating method that you have proposed?

It ain't hard to find out.....If you really care?

Old Pudfark sez: " I like my chicken fried....others like it microwaved "

dude, all energy starts out with initial high costs. It is doing the basic research to develop possibilities that haven't even been considered yet that I'm talking about. And yes, I agree with the thought that the energy companies and such will drive much of this, but where the government should be involved is in R and D and startup costs for smaller companies with sound ideas.

[HappyHappy]

Quote from Wikki

"The one-child policy (simplified Chinese: 计划生育政策; pinyin: jìhuà shēngyù zhèngcè; literally "policy of birth planning") is the population control policy of the People's Republic of China (PRC). The Chinese government refers to it under the official translation of family planning policy.[1] It officially restricts the number of children married urban couples can have to one, although it allows exemptions for several cases, including rural couples, ethnic minorities, and parents without any siblings themselves.[2] A spokesperson of the Committee on the One-Child Policy has said that approximately 35.9% of China's population is currently subject to the one-child restriction.[3] The policy does not apply to the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau, or Tibet."

Eat me Dike-O-Chew

HH

[Pudfark]

Slick, are ya dodging that KWH question....????