fair enough. The amazing thing, too, is that we were building a standing army, navy and air force from bare bones with civilians. There might be a lesson there, too, especially as it speaks to national unity of purpose.Pudfark wrote:Further, no one trained people like the US...not in quantity or quality....our experienced pilots were sent back to the states and incorporated into our training programs......no one else could "afford" to do this....to include Japan.
Shooting Advise
-
callmeslick
- Posts: 16473
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:02 pm
- Location: Fearing and loathing in Delaware and Virginia.
Re: Shooting Advise
-
callmeslick
- Posts: 16473
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:02 pm
- Location: Fearing and loathing in Delaware and Virginia.
Re: Shooting Advise
Buzz,
With equal equipment? Hell, then it comes down to a matter of circumstance and tactics. Want a different example? Look no further than the Civil War. One side had the superior tacticians, more motivated forces(at least at the outset), but the other had the production capacity. Guess which side won?
With equal equipment? Hell, then it comes down to a matter of circumstance and tactics. Want a different example? Look no further than the Civil War. One side had the superior tacticians, more motivated forces(at least at the outset), but the other had the production capacity. Guess which side won?
-
Pudfark
Re: Shooting Advise
An additional two cents worth....
It has been my experience, that folks who fight to acquire things..that don't belong to them...don't tend to fight as hard...as the rightful owners....that would sorta put a crease in your "morality" statement...just sayin.
It has been my experience, that folks who fight to acquire things..that don't belong to them...don't tend to fight as hard...as the rightful owners....that would sorta put a crease in your "morality" statement...just sayin.
-
Pudfark
Re: Shooting Advise
The wrong one....callmeslick wrote:Buzz,
With equal equipment? Hell, then it comes down to a matter of circumstance and tactics. Want a different example? Look no further than the Civil War. One side had the superior tacticians, more motivated forces(at least at the outset), but the other had the production capacity. Guess which side won?
Re: Shooting Advise
Slick,
The bottom line for me is my dad. All my life the Germans and guys like you say we won the war because of superior equipment. As if we would have lost if we didn't have it. It makes me sick.
If the men who fought next to my dad fought like he did, and I believe they did. Nobody was going to beat us.
I'm going to get more pissed off if I continue here, so i'm done in this thread.
The bottom line for me is my dad. All my life the Germans and guys like you say we won the war because of superior equipment. As if we would have lost if we didn't have it. It makes me sick.
If the men who fought next to my dad fought like he did, and I believe they did. Nobody was going to beat us.
I'm going to get more pissed off if I continue here, so i'm done in this thread.
-
Pudfark
Re: Shooting Advise
Hey Buzz, My uncle was a P-51 driver.....He sure had the superior equipment....Ask the survivors of the Nowatny family?
Re: Shooting Advise
What I wouldn't give to have a P-51 strafe the Slick household when he was home.................
-
callmeslick
- Posts: 16473
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:02 pm
- Location: Fearing and loathing in Delaware and Virginia.
Re: Shooting Advise
Buzz, my dad served as well......developing fire suppressent chemicals. What you saw was a nationwide, unified effort. I'd love to think that effort and the matter of being Right was all it would have taken, but as I say, history dictates otherwise......
-
Daiichidoku
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:09 pm
Re: Shooting Advise
Buzz- the germans NEVER complained they were beat by superior eq, they fully realise they were beat (for the most part) by logistics and bad management, if you were to grossly oversimplify it.
Pud- i know most yanks are indoctrinated into the "mustang won teh war" myth, and that it was superior....but sorry, it wasnt; P 51 was competitive only vs most equivalent german eq, and clearly inferior to it's equivalent US/Allied stablemates (namely F4U [esp the -4s], P-38J/L, P-47 D/M/N, Bearcat, Tigercat, Spit IX+, Tempest, Mosquito...) the P51 was the result of corporate/political fuckstickery that sacrificed a lot of lives for profit and influence...look no further than the sherman tank to see this in action in the same vein as P51
nice crack about the Nowotnys, nevermind what the record would look like if germans had the luxury of rotating pilots, or if the US didn't....but i bet you wouldnt want to go there, cuz you wouldnt have too much to "rah-rah US number 1!" over that
you spit in the eye of the Nowotny family, just as you spit in the eye of the McQuire or Preddy family, go back to douche planet, you fucking great douche
by the way, remember that your glorious US air force was entirely midwifed, equipped, trained and molded into the FRENCH pattern in WWI
Pud- i know most yanks are indoctrinated into the "mustang won teh war" myth, and that it was superior....but sorry, it wasnt; P 51 was competitive only vs most equivalent german eq, and clearly inferior to it's equivalent US/Allied stablemates (namely F4U [esp the -4s], P-38J/L, P-47 D/M/N, Bearcat, Tigercat, Spit IX+, Tempest, Mosquito...) the P51 was the result of corporate/political fuckstickery that sacrificed a lot of lives for profit and influence...look no further than the sherman tank to see this in action in the same vein as P51
nice crack about the Nowotnys, nevermind what the record would look like if germans had the luxury of rotating pilots, or if the US didn't....but i bet you wouldnt want to go there, cuz you wouldnt have too much to "rah-rah US number 1!" over that
you spit in the eye of the Nowotny family, just as you spit in the eye of the McQuire or Preddy family, go back to douche planet, you fucking great douche
by the way, remember that your glorious US air force was entirely midwifed, equipped, trained and molded into the FRENCH pattern in WWI
-
Daiichidoku
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:09 pm
Re: Shooting Advise
callmeslick wrote:a nationwide, unified effort. I'd love to think that effort and the matter of being Right was all it would have taken, but as I say, history dictates otherwise......
Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither here nor there nor anywhere. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country
~Hermann Goering