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Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:47 am
by nuf
Why do you think it will be India instead of Pakistan or Afghanistan?
Pudfark wrote:I think, ultimately it will be China or India...more likely, India.
Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:18 pm
by Darkhorse
nuf wrote:Noone can really explain why we still are in Afghanistan.
I can, it is very simple.
Al-Qaeda has attacked the U.S. many times and after 9/11 something had to be done about it. Al-Qaeda was based in Afghanistan; the Taliban government of Afghanistan supported and harbored them. Afghanistan was attacked to eliminate Al-Qaeda and remove the Taliban government. If Afghanistan does not have a government in place that is not threatening to the west the Taliban or someone like them will fill the void. That is why we are still there and yes it will be a long hard road.
Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:30 pm
by nuf
A government in Afghanistan can not be compared to a goverrnment in the west. It has no power outside of Kabul and has no means to prevent Al Qaida operating as they please. If they was no afghani government the situation would be very similar to what it is now, just with less bribes. The government is full of ex Mujahedeen, Warlords and corrupt power seekers, they manipulate the government to serve their needs. We can´t implement a powerfull government in the foreseeble future.
Btw, official statements now name other reasons and targets, as i´m sure is well known. Your long hard road could very well be 30 to 50 years without a guaranteed success.
Darkhorse wrote:nuf wrote:Noone can really explain why we still are in Afghanistan.
I can, it is very simple.
Al-Qaeda has attacked the U.S. many times and after 9/11 something had to be done about it. Al-Qaeda was based in Afghanistan; the Taliban government of Afghanistan supported and harbored them. Afghanistan was attacked to eliminate Al-Qaeda and remove the Taliban government. If Afghanistan does not have a government in place that is not threatening to the west the Taliban or someone like them will fill the void. That is why we are still there and yes it will be a long hard road.
Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:05 pm
by Darkhorse
nuf wrote:Your long hard road could very well be 30 to 50 years without a guaranteed success.
Agreed, what other course is there?
Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:13 pm
by Pudfark
Let China and India have it....
Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:15 pm
by Pudfark
nuf wrote:Why do you think it will be India instead of Pakistan or Afghanistan?
Pudfark wrote:I think, ultimately it will be China or India...more likely, India.
It's common sense...it's their region...and more of a "potential" threat to them....
Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:20 pm
by Darkhorse
Nuf, this is a comment on your first post. You need to take what you read about this with a spoonful of salt. This is not how the US Army operates. There always has been and always will be bad apples but the whole basket is not spoiled. As for ROEs they will never supersede the Uniformed Code of Military Justice.
Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:20 pm
by Pudfark
nuf wrote:Pudfark wrote:
The only way to defeat/beat terrorism?
Is to be better at it...than them.
Wow, ok you support terrorism and want the US to be the best terrorists in the world? I have good news for you: A lot of people world wide alread think that. At least that is the impression i get by browsing numerous forums. Good job i guess.
Anybody involved in a fight? That worries about what others might think of them?
Is going to lose the fight.
What do you suggest? Genocide? Nuking Afghanistan?
Any one who has ever fought?
Knows this.
Pud, i have talked to people who have fought in Afghanistan and believe it or not i had the impression they still had pride and ethics and they didn´t think anything goes in war. They didn´t support the murder of civilians, they didn´t want to kill children and they didn´t think war is FPS awesome. You may not like it but if your side acts like terrorists and doesn´t worry about how it is perceived around the world it will lose the fight. It will even lose the fight in your own country.
Them what have never fought?
Can only speculate.
That would be you, nuf.....no disrespect directly intended...
Ah, only indirect disrespect?
So i take it you have fought in a war?
27 years worth....no air support...no artillery...lots of media...lots of criticism...damned little help...
You're gonna have to wait until tomorrow for an answer to the rest of it...
I'm off to the airport...100+ mile drive...to pick up my daughter..
Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:08 pm
by callmeslick
Darkhorse wrote:Al-Qaeda has attacked the U.S. many times and after 9/11 something had to be done about it. Al-Qaeda was based in Afghanistan; the Taliban government of Afghanistan supported and harbored them. Afghanistan was attacked to eliminate Al-Qaeda and remove the Taliban government. If Afghanistan does not have a government in place that is not threatening to the west the Taliban or someone like them will fill the void. That is why we are still there and yes it will be a long hard road.
before moving to Afghanistan, Al-Qaeda was in Sudan, then, briefly, Yemen. After we attacked Afghanistan, they moved to friendly turf in Pakistan. This can keep up for years, and us hanging around pissing off the locals in Afghanistan does little to change things.
Re: Well, about that winning hearts and minds thing in Astan
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:11 pm
by callmeslick
Pudfark wrote:27 years worth....no air support...no artillery...lots of media...lots of criticism...damned little help...
I was going to ask the question which Nuf asked, and you answered above. In other words, you equate being a cop in some Texas backwater to fighting in a war zone as a soldier? You have to be joking, or else that is the most asinine, overreaching piece of stupidity produced here in a while.