A Complete Waste of Space

nicolas10 wrote: They are not a side effect, they are the root cause of all of it. A few very rich bankers (Rothschild, Rockefeller & al) use all their influence and power to force countries to borrow money.
Nic

I stopped reading after this.

Seriously, don't go Bilderberg on the subject, the next step is to buy into NWO crap and the Protocols of the elders of Zion usually.

The problem is that governments/societies forgot one simple rule every halfwitted peon knows. Rule No. 1: Do not spend more than you earn.

I don't believe in that zion bullcrap, nor have I ever read about that much. It's so easy to dismiss everything and calling for conspiracy theory.

It's only a matter of getting all the facts and putting them together.

Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild

In essence the law of 73 removed the power of the french tresor to issue money as it sees fit. And gives it to the finance world.
The great loan of 7,5 billion that followed that law had the french government pay 80 billion in intrests over the next years. That's racket.

- As the graph shows, the french debt has increased severalfold from 73 onward.
- It is a fact that Pompidou was a former director of the Rothschild bank
- Giscard d'Estaing was administrator of several Rothschild companies
1+1+1= ?

It's a fact that Draghi is ex goldman sachs
It's a fact that Mario Monti is ex goldman sachs
It's a fact Papademos was former vice president of the European Central bank

Nic

nicolas10 wrote:I don't believe in that zion bullcrap, nor have I ever read about that much. It's so easy to dismiss everything and calling for conspiracy theory.

It's only a matter of getting all the facts and putting them together.

- As the graph shows, the french debt has increased severalfold from 73 onward.
- It is a fact that Pompidou was a former director of the Rothschild bank
- Giscard d'Estaing was administrator of several Rothschild companies
1+1+1= ?

It's a fact that Draghi is ex goldman sachs
It's a fact that Mario Monti is ex goldman sachs
It's a fact Papademos was former vice president of the European Central bank

Nic

All well, still: Correlation != Causal Relation

Whereas spending more than you earn is the (only) cause to amassing debt. cause -> effect. Just sayin' and applying Hanlon's razor to the situation.

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of Government, but it is the Government's greatest creative opportunity." Abraham Lincoln, murdered

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce." - James A. Garfield, murdered.

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." — Congressman Charles A.
Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board as ministers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923 (remember how tragedy struck the Lindberg family without apparent reason?)

"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions.
They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers" — Congressional Record 12595-12603 — Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932

"I have never seen more Senators express discontent with their jobs....I think the major cause is that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices in doing something terrible and unforgivable to our wonderful country. Deep down in our heart, we know that we have given our children a legacy of bankruptcy. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected." — John Danforth (R-Mo)

"The [Federal Reserve Act] as it stands seems to me to open the way to a vast inflation of the
currency... I do not like to think that any law can be passed that will make it possible to submerge the gold standard in a flood of irredeemable paper currency." — Henry Cabot Lodge Sr., 1913

"A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world--no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." — President Woodrow Wilson

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The
issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to
whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

"If Congress has the right [it doesn't] to issue paper money [currency], it was given to them to be used by...[the government] and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations" — President Andrew Jackson, Vetoed Bank Bill of 1836

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." — Henry Ford

"Should government refrain from regulation (taxation), the worthlessness of the money becomes apparent and the fraud can no longer be concealed." — John Maynard Keynes, "Consequences of Peace."

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." — SIR JOSIAH STAMP, (President of the Bank of England in the 1920's, the second richest man in Britain):

Morbid Jester wrote:All well, still: Correlation != Causal Relation

Whereas spending more than you earn is the (only) cause to amassing debt. cause -> effect. Just sayin' and applying Hanlon's razor to the situation.

Well those who spend are the bitches of those banksters, so it's no wonder they're going to spend more than they have, usually for stuff that are of little to no benefit to their countrymen (invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc etc).

Nic

Some things that Ruggie and then MJ struck a chord with me, whilst at the same time I agree with Nic and Slick in general.

Ruggie said :

The mentality of these morons is proof that you can't raise kids and tell every one of them they are special. You can't have them play organized sports and not keep score, and give everyone a trophy because they participated. You can't not give them grades in school, even failing ones. Because in real life in the real world there are winners and losers. And if you've never experienced both then you will have no idea how to navigate thru life. This is why they're blaming all the ills of the world on capitalism. They want a hand out, they want what they haven't earned. They're adult children.

Apart from the part I put in Bold.

Your comment applies not just to protesters but to wider society, with the caveat that if you are not good at some things and therefore a "loser" in society's eyes, it doesn't mean you can't be good at something else. Some people can paint or draw, others are good at maths or science, others should be leaders and others followers etc. The problem is that most people's actual worth is measured in what they have not what they can do. So the guy with the 5 bed house and swimming pool and 4 door garage looks like he has worked the hardest for it. Which might be the case, or he has been lucky and had the right connections all his life from high school to college etc. But he will feel that he is entitled to feel like a "winner" even if you or I know he is just a lucky bastard with the intellect of a newt.

Secondly, when all kids at school are given prizes regardless, then the actual smart kids, or the one's who worked the hardest, are not being rewarded when they should ( although this could be a good life lesson too as it happens as life is like that sometimes ). So will I agree with you in part, I think that it can be a bit more complex.

MJ said :

Another thing I noticed -in the crowd of the occupiers over here at least- that the ones with real social issues such as being homeless or others that have fallen on hard times (long term unemployment, e.g) are strangely absent or doing the captalist thing: They try to obtain money by activity. I've even seen some of the above collecting soda/water bottles/cans from the scene and cashing them in for deposit and profit. Anecdotal evidence for sure, but kind of reinforced my view on the "Movement".

The people with real social issues etc, may not have access to social networking via PC/Internet/Smart phones etc. Thus their absence. Collecting cans and bottles is what homeless people do as a way to generate a few bucks for food or whatever, not to pay for mobile phones and nice houses and internet connections. The people at the bottom of the scale in the West will see stuff like that as a luxury they can't afford, and the time to protest for them also would take away from their day to day struggle to find enough money or food to survive or buy clothes or find a warm place to sleep. Long term unemployed people also do not have the luxury of being political as again it is a daily struggle just to get by ( I've been in that position myself and the last thing I would be doing is wasting time with a protest sign.)

To an extent it is up to those with the spare time and economic security to actually take part in protests. Be it retired people, ex service people ( yes there were a few of them too as well as the commies and hippies ) or people who do live a comfortable life but want to show support against the inequality we have in the West right now. Frankly I think it is great to see people motivated to protest instead of waiting outside Apple stores to buy a new gizmo.

On the much larger picture ( as the image Rez posted shows ) even the poorest in our society have more than people in other parts of the world. But I think Nic alluded to the fact that both are caused by the same type of people, ie the 1 percent of the Western world who to you or I are super rich, but to people in the third world are almost unimaginably and obscenely wealthy. No one really needs to have a net worth of several billion unless it is merely to use as a way to control society.

The mistake being made by people who actually earn their money or run their own businesses etc, and perhaps earn several hundred thousand a year, is that these protests are against you. They are not at all, you are just as shit poor as the rest of us compared to the true 1 percent crowd. And the gap between working people in the west and people on benefits widens just as much as the gap ( maybe even less ) as the one between the middle class and the super rich. If I was running a small/medium business right now I'd be out protesting too at the people who make more money in interest in one day for sitting on their ass, than most of us would make working our butts off all year.

Some fair points soapy.

Heck as far as I'm concerned some guy could have billions as long as he doesn't try to control the gvt of his country for his own profit & at the detriment of the rest of the people. Nor do I have anything against the jew as resdouche tried to imply in another thread. Shows the level of dishonesty that he'd go to make his no-points.

Nic

while I noted, above, that Res raises a valid point, it only goes this far:
What you see, in the nations of the world where the bulk of the truly destitute live, is the end result of income disparity. In every one of those nations, a small elite lives very well, by anyone's standards. The rest live in dirt poverty. As I've been trying to point out here for a decade, that is the model currently in place in the US, and to some extent elsewhere in the West, but the still-comfortable masses don't see it. The gap is and has been accelerating between the wealthy and everyone else, and with labor now on a global playing field, a lot of people who now view themselves as middle class are but a couple generations removed from their grandchildren begging for food in the street, unless something changes. And that, to a great extent, is what these protests are about. That folks twitter off into different little tangents is typical of progressives. I've often railed against that tendency as it tends to rile up potentially likeminded folks(Res is an example, I think).
Still, to MJ and Rugg and others--this isn't going to be about who works hard, or wants to work, it's about the income that will be distributed for that work and the social safety net to make life at much lower incomes liveable. Don't fall for the bunk about this protest movement being by slackers and miscreants. It isn't. And, it isn't going away, I'll bet.

oh, and on the above note, I am going fishing(Assateague Rockfish Tournament) for the rest of the week. Play nice.

callmeslick wrote:That folks twitter off into different little tangents is typical of progressives. I've often railed against that tendency as it tends to rile up potentially likeminded folks(Res is an example, I think)

For the record, I take insult in being referred to as a "progressive". Believe me, I'm not.