The King James Bible

[fatman]

We are the end product ofcreation

Fixed

[callmeslick]

How do we get from a slimey thingy from the swamp to a mammal, and why did it stop? Why don't apes turn into humans now? Where are examples of the inbetween stages?

I'll volunteer to do a thread on this in the future, if you'd really wish to know. It makes pretty much perfect sense, if you know the various bits and pieces, and accept that we don't know every precise step along the way. Just don't expect me to start this one right away, the first post alone would take a whole page.

[HappyHappy]

Creation is a nice catch all for those who feel themselves better than all animals.
But we are in FACT a Great Ape.

Evolution has not stopped, it is a slow on going process.

What is really screwed up is the process of evolving in isolation.
In particular we humans have made a mess of our evolution by
interbreeding and totaly eliminating isolated populations.

Another notion that needs to be addressed is the "step" or missing link
idea in the fossil record.
There is a slow change, and never a step.
The fossil record is not near to be completely
filled in and we have many samples of that slow change in many animals.
Humans seem to be rather well sampled. We can see the progression through
the rapid evolution of the Human species over the past 7 million years.

What you believers in the God myth might be better to latch on to is the
extremly rapid pace of human evolution over the past 500,000 years.
There seems to be no paralell in the history of life as told in the fossil record.
You might be able to scrape a devine intervention myth from that.

Sorry to pop your bubble people, the Earth has been around in a manner
we would recognise for 4.5 billion years (or more) and it was not created
by a supreme being.

We are a continously evoving species on this planet we call Earth.

and why did it stop?

Evolution never stopped.

HH

[Buzz]

I wasn't really asking a question, but challenging the evolutionist to expain. I find it comical.

If it hasn't stopped. Show me man being created again. The whole process. Why don't we find that at different stages anymore?

The truth is, God created everything, and allows a certain amount of evolution. Do your best to disprove that.

[CUDA]

and it was not created by a supreme being.

proof???? oh thats right you have none, my bad.

while the age of the earth may be disputable, your statement that it was not created is arrogant at best. because you do not know and you cannot prove or disprove it either way. I've learned a long time ago that Science teaches us the how and God teaches us the why.

I dont know the answer to the creation of the cosmos. science tells us that it's billions of years old. the Bible tells us that it was created in 6 days. but who's 6 days?? mans or Gods?

2 Peter 3:8

‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Psalm 90:4

Indeed, in your sight a thousand years are like a single day, like yesterday-already past- like an hour in the night

I dont know the answer. I find things that prove it could have been created in 6 days.
and I find things that say it's millions of years old. but two thing I've learned, science is it's ever changing and always evolving and tomorrow it may come up with a new hypothosis that totally changes everything we understand today.
but with every new archeological discovery we prove the Bible to be true. belief in God is an act of faith, as none of us were there to witness what the Bible says happened. all we can do is trust in what the Bible says to be truth. but one thing about the Bible. it is the most accurate history book ever written. and Roman along with other secular documents support this.
but bear in mind that belief in science is also an act of faith. a faith that's foundation could change tomorrow and rock your world.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

[HappyHappy]

your statement that it was not created is arrogant at best.

Really?
I can easily show you very strong evidence that our Earth was "created" in
an accreation disc over several hundred million years with the primary formation
ending about 4.7-4.5 billion years ago.

While i have some serious issues with the big bang theory there is incontravertable
evidence of galaxies and stars over 12,000,000,000 years old (years ago).

The bible is a collection of stories written by men. There is some history recorded in the bible
but it is far from being proof of any scientific fact.

The God myth is just that, a myth.

HH

[CUDA]

apparently you stopped reading my post after the first sentence. try it again.

and if you are having trouble understanding what I'm saying then I'll be more than happy to expound on my comments.

I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source . . . They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres.

and to quote En-Vogue. Free your Mind and the rest will follow

[Buzz]

your statement that it was not created is arrogant at best.

Really?
I can easily show you very strong evidence that our Earth was "created" in
an accreation disc over several hundred million years with the primary formation
ending about 4.7-4.5 billion years ago.

While i have some serious issues with the big bang theory there is incontravertable
evidence of galaxies and stars over 12,000,000,000 years old (years ago).

The bible is a collection of stories written by men. There is some history recorded in the bible
but it is far from being proof of any scientific fact.

The God myth is just that, a myth.

HH

You coming from a swamp is the myth. It's easy for you to accept it though. You can live anyway you want.

[oFZo]

....the feeling of some philosophers that the function of religion is to keep social order...
...Another view of religion is as explanation/reassurance of man's fear of Death...
and
...The third strain of 'explanation' of the development in man of religion is to merely explain the unexplainable, or unknown...

My current thoughts on religion, very short:
I consider it very likely religion started as something to explain phenomenae not (yet) understood and perhaps to comfort people reassuring them there's an almighty good guy on their side. That concept soon (I give it 2hrs max) got exploited by greedy & powerhungry bastards who introduced rules and such to make the populace behave in a manner that made them rich and powerful, keeping them in line with threats of an angry God. Some scriptures were made by man to spread the basic positive message, many to teach, more than a handfull by mental patients and shitloads to mislead and exploit. All versions are now taken much too seriously (or worse: literally) by people who should probably

...find inner peace and stop worrying about it...

I never understood the combination of a being that's almighty as well as craving praise from some puny creature.
It all seems so clearly humanly structured; the guy on top demands tribute, honor, glory, or else.
If it's such an awesome caring "father" why doesn't it just show itself every once in a while, help people with their troubles, teach some wise things and then get back to more pressing matters? (Not even there for cutting the meat on Sunday, c'mon dad!)
If it's goal is for us to do well by it's standards, why not be clear about it all instead of the mindgames.

My opinion is far from formed, it's just slightly structured thoughts I typed.
Just .02, perhaps less.

[callmeslick]

Cuda, as is often the case, states a position similar to mine. I am not about to rule out creation at the outset, but enough facts are extant to know for sure the following:

The Earth is millions, hundreds of millions of years old.

Man did evolve from lower apes, which evolved from smaller mammals, which evolved from cold-blooded creatures, most likely amphibian(but possibly from the branch that also produced birds, according to some research), which evolved from single celled organisms. No Buzz, there will never be a step-by-step diagram produced from a fossil record, bones and tissue just don't hold up under layers of sediment for that long. Still, enough has been discovered, and enough basic biological research has been done on the genetics to make the transitional path clearer every day.